Ganus Foundation Eye
The Discussion Centre: Eye Sign: Ganus Foundation Eye
Oh the pictures haven't took... still I might be able to just post the pictures.....!
I really wrote a 'spate' last night and posted it, nissed as a pewt! Trembled this moning lol when looking in. Started at bottom and couldn't believe it! No stick coming back at me! Crikey it hadn't taken either. Just as well really like lol.
Had a spate of 'Money Wallets' going missing over here in the early 60's!
A 'Money Walet' was used to put the firms takings into the Bank vault by a chute. Well these geezer after quite a considerable run, got lazy and lapsidaical etc. and was caught. He simplely had train a monkey to nip down and bring up the wallets!
That's incredible Roly. Good to???? To Tom. No the C/C isn't the only thing to take into consideration in the breeding eye but, it is definately one of them, especially when it comes to the widening out of it at the rear of the eye.
I also agree with you about the occasional narrow eye-signs that belong to some of the very best breeding birds but, they ALL without exception, have remarkable depth at the same time.
The narrow eye-sign is usually caused by the over exuberance of the iris which squeezes it down into a thin line which can be seen to completely encircle the pupil, but as I have said, these usually have remarkable depth in them.
The flat enamelled looking iris is very seldom if ever found in the eye of a top breeder. Most have what is referred to as character in the iris.
This breeding Iris is comprised of thick top tubes clumped together to form little lumps or hills etc which create minute shaddows adding to the appearance of depth and in general, looking like a very rough and rugged Iris area.
There is an exception to this accepted rough looking Iris of the breeder which come's to mind, and that is in the Single Tubed eye. See Oscars No 9. These will be missed by most people if you are not familiar with their appearance. They make excellent breeders. WHY. Contrast??????? And the beat goes on. 
P/S. To Beverly writing for her husband?? No I don't know why the color of the iris has an effect on the breeding and racing performance of our birds, but I can understand your skeptism and disbelief the way you explained it.
Perhaps if I ask you to look at it this way. Eye sign doesn't determin these things by it's presence, it depicts them.
I have also gotten several interesting e-mails from guys who have bred yellow eyes from 2 pearls. I hope you will continue to keep close observations of such things and let the people know. Thak you all. Jesse Wu of New Jersey. I think you may have two Dominant Violets but best of all, A YELLOW VIOLET ALSO???????
Roly. I sent the 'electric fence' one to a freind. She was going to buy a fencer for her husbands birthday next week. I talked her out of it. I sold her an electric stock prod cheap!!
MrEyesign. Apparently then the eyesign theory or reading of the eyes is not at all cut and dried and finished with. It amazes me how after so many years new signs are still being discovered. Not at all being sarcastic here, but many people have been looking at eyes for years and not too much new stuff evolves.Guess there is many more signs than the first described basic ones.
The problem with making discoveries is a three fold one. 1. That it is new and not a re discovery of some forgotten feature which the new discoverer is OVER anxious to gain the recognition for having discovered, and 2. What sort of testing was carried out AND WITH HOWMANY BIRDS? by whom? when? how was it done? etc, before making any claims to a hungry pigeon world. 3. Watching out for the blatant attempts to steal the fruits of your labor by the unscrupulous people that exist out there in the big wide world like Jack Barkel and his claims to have discovered the Cluster. It's still up there in the archives of this site and copied as a link on other sites.
You cannot afford to be impatient in this thing, it takes years in some instances to even start to compile a sufficient stock of evidence to support a claim, and without it, you have nothing except an unsubstantiated day-dream or opinion, usually based on the flimsiest of evidence such as the findings from watching one or two pair of birds over a couple of seasons. It takes hundreds of pairs over long periods before any Trend Analysis can be performed.
eg.I discovered the Spot Eyed Cluster jointly with a close friend of mine back in the early 50s as a small boy of ten. But I defy ANYONE to find mention of them IN ANY PUBLICATION from ANYWHERE together with what they mean and are capable of until my book came out in 1976.
The same goes for the Drifting Pigment in the pupil and it's meaning. The Single Tubed Smash eyes and their ability and existance, the protrusions of the circle of serration and what they can signify. Likwise the 3 different sizes of pigment grains found in all eyes except the Bull eye and what they denote. More indepth understandings of the Violet and Green eyes and how to pair them for the best possible results through Contrast.
The upper and lower capillary levels and the diffent sizes of CAPILLARIES of the Iris proper and it's basic structure. This area is also where I found the incredibly accurate sign known as Spokes and Smudges.
All these things and many others have taken me personally over 50 years to research and arrive at a final conclusion about, BACKED UP WITH RECORDED FACTS GATHERED AND, PHOTOGRAPHIC PROOF TO BACK UP ANY AND ALL OF MY CLAIMS ABOUT EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM.
So you see Spuggsy, it's no easy task for any man to take on, and this is probably why I have such a short fuse when I see and read some of the absolute crap that has been posted on here from time to time about this subject by people who don't know the first damn thing about it, ESPECIALLY THE SKEPTICS.
People like Larry Lucas who ridiculed the subject and me on the pipa site for claiming to be the worlds leading authority on this subject but, couldn't and wouldn't deliver one schred of evidence to justify his attack on the subject or me.
He made claims to have studied the subject for a year or so??????? but found it to be of no possible use to the pigeon flyer what so ever.
Then the arrogant self opinionated phony SOB WENT INTO HIDING, and only posts on sites where they have no idea that the PHD he use's and waves around like a flag of authority is for studying the gospel???????Nothing to do with pigeons. He uses it as a means of adding authority to whatever he writes, and this deception coming from a man of the cloth????? Bullshit, he's nothing but a hypocrite.
Hence, I was left with no choice but to RE-issued my old challenge but, now to include him and or any other eye-sign man or skeptic, who wishes to take up same to prove me and my teachings and technique wrong.
The original Challenge was issued in England back in the 70s, but no-one accepted it then and again it remains unchallenged. I can do no more. But the beat goes on. And I'll bet when I die they will come out of the wood work saying that they never saw it.
TO ALL THOSE INTERESTED.
The following invitation is made in an attempt to demonstrate to you all the difficulty of making a new discovery and gathering the evidence to enable you to confidently announce your findings to the world.
This is a simple exercise that you all can assist with, and the findings can be compiled on here over the next few years from which a satisfactory conclusion can be reached.
Look at the eye's of all your birds and see if you can find those that have protrusions like those found in the breeding area but this time, in the 10 and 11 O Clock positions above the area of racing composition on either the right or left eye's.
When you find them and they are quite common, start making notes as to any special abilities or quirks about these birds that you might happen to notice over the next couple of years.
EXCHANGE YOUR OBSERVATIONS AND FINDINGS WITH EACH OTHER AS YOU GO.
Then analyse what you all come up with and see if it warrants an announcement. Call it the COMANCO eye project or something like that. But what ever you do, Have fun doing it. .
Rob,
Can you post a picture of one
Jim
Bobo, I know. Suffer the same degree of disbelief you must feel, when we have grunted as hard as we can and deposited a pearl for the esne's to digest but they had rather eat the daiseys. Lets race. Bye BillyT
Jimmy I saw over a dozen on the Ganus family site but one real nice one was Olympia Queen. Also Mr Janssen. You find the rest.
Mreyesign, how about Time Machine? Actually there are a lot on the Ganus site that I like. A few of the pictures are hard for me to read.
I agree Marvin, and couldn't the EYE-SIGN skeptics have a ball with most of them. If they only realized that what they are seeing as proof of the subject being wrong etc, is in fact the exact opposite, and those eyes with hardly any visible eye-sign are living testimony to the validity of the entire subject. With the exception of Mike v. I wonder howmany of the readers know why this is so.
Jack's Violet?
Info on the "JONGE MATTENS" mother has arrived.
The "JONGE MATTENS" dam is called "LIBERTY" and her band Number is BELG 3200561-00 Blue Hen.
This particular hen was bred by Gaby Vandenabeele
directly off the famous "KOLONEL"BELG 3233008-92
1st.Ace Pigeon Long Distance One Day Releases.
"KOLONEL" is a son of the "WITTENBUIK" 3206112-88.
"WITTENBUIK" is Gaby Vandenabeele's Best breeding cock. He is father-Grn father & Grt.Grn.father to 90% of his loft.
In "LIBERTY'S" first year of breeding she bred 3 equal 1st.place winners, not bad for a young hen.
She has the look of her father (KOLONEL).
She is medium sized, strong bodied with rich red eyes, and with very soft feathers.
This family wins as young bird's 100 to 400 Miles.
Very fast,consistent and known to do their best with hot weather and headwind's.
I hope I have provided enough information on this bird. We will post a picture of "LIBERTY" and her eye as soon as the pictures become available.
Yours in the Sport - Tony Alves.
Thanks Tony. I guess we'll just have to wait for the pictures.
Wow Mike??? is the size thing my fault???? I had it reduced but not enough I guess.
This was posted to show those who cannot see the 10 and 11 o clock protrusions or what they look like.
EYE-SIGN'S ARE NOT ALWAYS AS LARGE AND OBVIOUS AS NEON SIGNS. Sometimes depending on what you are looking for, you have to look hard to find it.
The protrusion in this eye is very small but never-the-less it's there, right where I said it was. There is also a much bigger and better one shown in the opposite position.
If you look at the Ganus stock Birds, they all have the right eye showing which is unusual because, it is usually the left eye that is featured in photographs, so logically when this happens, the No's are then changed to 1 and 2 O Clock.
Mike I'm sorry to be such a damn nuisence but if you could re size that picture I shall explain a couple of things about it which are quite interesting. Thanks Mike.
Hi Bob. I can't resize but Andy S. send me a smaller version of the pic. Let's see if it works.
So is this REALLY a violet?
Strangely enough yes it was Tom. The colors have gotten all screwed up through posting, but the bird was perhaps the first eye ever featured in a pigeon magazine in Australia many years ago and belonged to an ex football hero friend of mine called Jack Harris of Melbourne. Jack claimed to have a bird which bred him 3 combine winners and was still a young bird.
He was not an eye-sign man but told me that if I could pick it out of his team, he would buy a glass that day and start looking.
The last I saw of him he was standing on a chair trying to catch the last rays of the setting sun, while looking at eyes through his new Glass which I gave him?????
During the visit, I was introduced to another man and his wife who came to look at the birds also. We talked for a while but the man's English left quite a lot to be desired. Finally I learned that the guy was the secretary to President Secarno of Indonesia????? His interest in pigeons was purely as a food. He wanted us to cook some up for him??? true story.
If that is violet - then yes they can breed both pearls and yellows. I get more confused as I try to learn.
Tom don't be like so many others at this point. You must be patient. Remember that you are NOW dealing with the hardest part of the entire subject. Deciding the Violet.
They are NOT all big bold and easy to see and grade. Many are so difficult to decern as Violet, that the only way left when undecided like this is to consult the records.
Jack's eye only shows the true Violet in one spot which is in the mouths of the protrusions, this is a common problem with them so please, be patient and tollerant of that and the fact that these are not called the illusive Violet just for fun.
With the rarity of them, it's difficult to become familiar with the many different versions and examples you may encounter but, with practice (trial and error) you will get better at finding them in the end.
Deciding the violet? I must be missing something here. No, not being sarcastic. I understood or thought that a violet was just that, a violet coloured eye. No ifs or buts. Or simply stated , red is red violets are blue. So I assume that there are eyes with a hint of violet, 10% violet etc, so how can one say that he has a violet eyed bird as such? Or a yellow violet where the eye is yellow with a touch of blue ad infinitum. So does not that lead to people calling any bird with a touch of violet/blue a violet eyed bird? That would be misleading to people such as I who have little knowledge regarding eyes but have always heard the violet eye is the absolute best. Same as the definition of green. Is there not yet any classification with pics to grade from best to worst? Or has someone done it already? Again, only asking.
Spuggy There is no such thing as a pigeon with a Violet colored eye. There is such a thing as an eye that is made up of three distinct colors which when held in the sun at ARMS LENGTH and just the right angle will reflect a Violet HUE OVER THE ENTIRE EYE. This is the refraction of all the three colors I mentioned a couple of posts ago.
The other difference in the Violet eye is, the color of the actual red iris. It is more of a port wine red or burgundy and NOT the normal blood red found in all other eyes.
The white of the Violet eye is also for the most part, different to the run of the mill white pigment found in most pearl eyes, it's a brilliant white like no other, and the Violet hue can often be seen on the outside of the circle of serration where the white pigment is retained.
You will see blue pigment and even small amounts of yellow grains on the circle of correlation in some Violet eyes, but the basic tri colors are as explained.
The difficulty comes from eyes like this last one posted, (Jacks Violet) where only very small glimses of the real color can be found.
These are a problem, but if you read all the posts so far re this eye, you should be equipped to decide for yourself as to what it is, and as I said, you can always resort to checking the records of such birds.
Bob; Does anyone else in the eyesign game have the same definition of a violet as you? Could you name a couple? I have never heard anyone describe a violet - as you do.
HEH HEH HE he HE EH he he hee. mind I doubt they do because 95% don't even know what they are loking for... Any way Bob, never mind him, we pay our money and takes a choice as of what we may or may not believe like lol... HeH hEH hee he hee...
Who cares what other may or may not , or how , the thing is THAT is your defination, Better to ask OTHERS if they agree, or even know like than to ask the 'King' if any other lands have the same religion lol heh heh hee he he hee.
Ps what a plonker lol
Of cause they don't . or may! why would one care ani roads like . heh heh hee tee te he ...
Tom. Many people call a pearl a Violet because as Roly say's, they have never seen the real thing. I owned a Violet eye'd hen and would let people look at her when they came to visit after which, I would ask them to discribe the eye to me and who ever else was present, THEY NEVER COULD.
I have no idea who else discribes the Violet. But Roly is right, this is because most have never seen one AND MANY JUST GAVE UP LOOKING and have resorted to calling all pearls Violets.
That's why I have given you the other ways with which to determin them. I shall post pictures of a few more types, but the final word will always rest with you.
The only thing I can add after all I have told you, is to look at as many eye's as you possibly can. These eyes are RARE. I have seen less than 35&1/2 with all my experience. Practice is the only thing that will help you all in this quest.
They do exist and are out there, you will see them, but they are not all the same or as obvious as we would like, you will also miss recognizing them? When in doubt, check the records out. If the bird has performed far above the norm and the eye contains the colors and make-up as discribed, then the chances are that you have found one. For all your sakes I hope so, It's a reward we all need to experience. AND REMEMBER, IT ISN'T JUST THE COLOR, THE RECORDS MUST CONFIRM IT UNLESS YOU ARE LOOKING AT A BABY.
Tell us more about the YELLOW VIOLET??? Do VIOLETS come with a yellow or pearl base???
Hi Bob..Have asked Hal to post 2 eye's for me they are the parents of the bird i have donated to the up north combine auction the young birds eye didn't get a good shot will try later. bill butterfield.
\image
Hang on, trying..
HI HAL..Am i suposed to do some thing to open it. bill butterfield
BB birds. \image\
No Bill I am screwing up here. Try my site for the pics, http://www.spuggy.com Motley crew page. I will keep trying here.
BB's eyes. I did it before but having a hard time here posting a pic. tutorial for dummies? What is a step by step simple way? Thanks.
k will make a web page for eyes, much quicker and simpler.
K the eyes of bills 2 pigeons are at http://www.spuggy.com/4/ just put up the page via template so ignore the yahdeda stuff.
Very quick loading.
Buttplug, no doubt those wonderful eyesign birds on your site are for sale. Give it up and advertise in the pigeon mags. I smell a sleeze. Lets race. Bye BillyT
Spuggy - watch out he "KNOWS" you have WMD's.
Hi BillyT.. Those biirds are mine and are not for sale at any price.bill butterfield.
BillyT.... I always wonder why the words 'For Sale' attract your ire. Then I remember you spent your entire career on a govt handou..... paycheck. An employer who pays whether it has any money or not to employees who deserve it or not. the rest of us actually have to accomplish something, or heaven forbid, even sell something.
When we are done that we have to do or sell something more to pay tax so that the govt can refill it's trough.
Yesterday I asked if anyone knew why most of the Ganus birds displayed the thin or narrow eye-signs as apposed to the traditional wide circle of correlation with the 5 to 10 racing area and it's dark composite sign and rough mountainous looking iris.
Again there were no answers to my question except via E-Mail, so again I assume that no one who posts is interested. So for those who are let me explain the following.
Mike Ganus has to buy birds which have performed down the road in competition, and with records that will impress a reader, thus catering for the desires of the vast majority of his potential customers.
The results of continually breeding from these kinds of birds is very similar to those attained by people who also believe in Billy T's practice of breeding only from winners.
You will finish up with a family of birds that ( eye wise) resemble what you see in the stock birds of the Ganus family loft.
If you look with an open mind, you will soon agree that these birds are somewhat more difficult to read or grade than the widely accepted eyes of the traditional breeding birds eye's so often shown as such.
These Ganus eyes are also excellent examples of how it is possible to see the many VARIATIONS of the norm, which I tried to explain to Tom when discussing the Violet.
Yes there are the traditional eye-sign's amongst them however, as these pictures show, there are many variations of them which only experience and practise looking at as many of them as possible will prepare you for. Some of you older guy's are too late but the young ones can never start too early. I began looking at eye's and girls when I was 7. And the beat goes on.
To Billy B and Spuggsy. Sorry guy's but you better wait until the sun shines, I can't see a damn thing. The Contrast looks good though???