| By Jim on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 09:42 am: Edit |
By Tom Makowecki, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada (207.229.37.145 - 207.229.37.145) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 10:30 am:
I have posted a picture of Bob Fleming's ULTIMATE BREEDING EYE....It can be seen by clicking on:
http://www.tmakowecki.com/Flemings%20Ultimate.htm
Comments?
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By david rodgers (206.172.171.77 - 206.172.171.77) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 11:33 am:
HI TOM cant get the eye to come up.
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By MYRON (205.188.201.212 - 205.188.201.212) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 11:51 am:
TOM,
IT POPPED RIGHT UP FOR ME
WILL TRY IT AGAIN
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By THE WHIP (205.188.201.212 - 205.188.201.212) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 11:52 am:
STILL WORKS IN P.R.
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By Bill Shuba (24.72.27.91 - 24.72.27.91) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 01:09 pm:
Tom M
ALL I get is a bunch of letters all over.
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By TomMakowecki@canada.com (207.229.37.232 - 207.229.37.232) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 02:41 pm:
Let me try something else........
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By Roly (62.253.32.4 - 62.253.32.4) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 02:45 pm:
works fine for me
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By Tom Makowecki, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada (207.229.37.146 - 207.229.37.146) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 03:14 pm:
This file that Myron sent me is an .art file and it doesn't transfer to the NET properly. I need to get it in a jpeg or bmp format and then - no problem......I get it, Mron gets it and now Roly too.....but maybe we have something in our computers - so they can read a .art file ?????
I will still keep trying different things.
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By Bill Shuba (24.72.27.91 - 24.72.27.91) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 03:25 pm:
Tom
what I get now is URL not found on this server.Is there anything I can do at my end to see this.
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By Bill Shuba (24.72.27.91 - 24.72.27.91) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 03:47 pm:
Tom m
Forget it Tom,I was sent this by someone to view,Thank you D D who ever you are!!!
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By LadyDi (216.8.157.81 - 216.8.157.81) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 03:52 pm:
You're welcome Shoobie..seems to work thru hotmail better
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By Tom Makowecki, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada (207.229.37.146 - 207.229.37.146) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 03:55 pm:
I am still searching for a way to change this ART file to JPEG - I thought Myron sent it to me as a JPEG but it looks like I was wrong. Please wait and I will let you know if and when I get it...TOOOO many different file formats on the NET and it seems that AOL likes to screw the rest of the world around.... I think Myron and Bob Fleming should look for a different Internet provider.
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By Roly (62.253.32.4 - 62.253.32.4) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 03:57 pm:
NTL too Di. I think if one was to down load a WINZIP and utilise the wizard it gives you everyone could.
Ps I have been given the all clear. Had Norton , F.Prot etc Trend and a couple of others all working on this virus.... I still won't risk sending emails too anyone. Up dated three latest to - day.... still not happy. Been sending emails to some of my other computers and all seem clear.... but I am not sending so if any one gets one of me DON'T OPEN DESTROY.
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By BOB FLEMING. (198.81.17.176 - 198.81.17.176) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 04:21 pm:
To Tom. I can get it no problem. Remember that this picture was taken off a 35mm side also and that is why it is not as clear as your's are Tom. To Bill shubie. The answer is yes.
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By Bill Shuba (24.72.27.91 - 24.72.27.91) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 05:09 pm:
Bob Fleming
This is a eye of a great example of one saying he can see these with out a loupe,I've Seen a eye with 1 of these things that are of this size,this was the Meally of Frank's in Edmonton.Can a cluster get bigger in size as a bird gets older??
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By MYRON (64.12.106.39 - 64.12.106.39) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 06:11 pm:
BOB,
WOULD THE CHANCES BE BETTER IF THIS WAS A DOMINATE VIOLET EYE.
WHAT DIFFERENCE IS THERE FOR BREEDING IF YOU HAVE A HEN WITH CLUSTERS, RATHER THAN A COCK.??
WHAT COMBINATION IN PAIRING WOULD BE BEST FOR A REPEAT IN Y/B'S.
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By Tom Makowecki, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada (207.229.37.129 - 207.229.37.129) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 06:34 pm:
Try this: http://www.tmakowecki.com/Flemings%20Ult%20eye.jpg I sure hope it shows up for everyone now.
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By Bill Shuba (24.72.27.91 - 24.72.27.91) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 06:47 pm:
Tom
Works for me,Thank you!!
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By Tom Makowecki, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada (207.229.37.129 - 207.229.37.129) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 06:55 pm:
Bob; OK Can you give us some info on the bird and what it has bred to qualify it as the ultimate breeding eye. I'll pu that info on the site.
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By Bill Shuba (24.72.27.91 - 24.72.27.91) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 07:49 pm:
Tom M
I sent you some pictures,Let me know if they came through or not,remember I'am New at this.haha Thanks
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By MYRON (64.12.103.49 - 64.12.103.49) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 08:01 pm:
works in p.r. tom
BOB, MUST BE SLEEPING
WAKE UP BOB
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By Bob Fleming,. (198.81.16.44 - 198.81.16.44) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 08:25 pm:
I'm awake now. YES IT WORKS FINE.I will send you all I have on it Tom but, in the mean time. If the readers think this is something. Wait till you see the rest of them gathered from all round the world. These will be shown for the very first time ever at your convention in London Ontario. Together with many other eye features which also have NEVER been shown before by ANYONE ANYWHERE. Those questions you guy's have asked will all be answered in full at that time.
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By Bill Shuba (24.72.27.91 - 24.72.27.91) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 08:29 pm:
Just teaseing here Bob but that sounds like something the BOOK would have said,hahaha.I'll have my hand up most of the night at convention,between getting drinks of course that is for MYRON,hahahha!!
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By Dave Booth (172.149.162.13 - 172.149.162.13) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 08:33 pm:
Hi Bob . dont go to London next year for the convention,as we will all be in Windsor Ontario for the 2002 Convention .Just thought i would let you know so you dont get lost and get culled. lol.
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By THE WHIP (64.12.103.49 - 64.12.103.49) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 08:59 pm:
BOB,
NOW COME ON, ALL THIS WORK FOR NOTHING.
THAT ::: SUCKS:::
GIVE US A BREAK, WE LET YOU SLEEP UNTIL IT GOT FIXED.
WE'RE WAITING
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By Tom Makowecki, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada (207.229.37.174 - 207.229.37.174) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 09:10 pm:
The Eye with the proof:
http://www.tmakowecki.com/Bob%20F%20Ult%20eye.htm
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By Bob Fleming. (198.81.16.44 - 198.81.16.44) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 09:15 pm:
To All. It's nice to see that someone reads the posts on here. I threw that little test in to see if you were all paying attention. Thank you Dave. I knew it was in Ontario somewhere. I thought it was in London. DING ALING ALING ALING. No Bill I would never do that to you guy's. I will keep throwing out these teasers though. It might help the attendance. But I would never ask or show you something which was not of use to you or, had no answer to it.
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By MYRON (64.12.103.49 - 64.12.103.49) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 09:24 pm:
THE MESSAGE IS THERE, BUT NO PIC
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By Bill Shuba (24.72.27.91 - 24.72.27.91) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 09:25 pm:
Bob
Yes I know that,I was just pulling your leg.I Do relize though you have to save some of the best stuff for the convention.I'll try to keep my questions down to about 15 a day.hahahaha
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By Tom Makowecki, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada (207.229.37.174 - 207.229.37.174) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 09:35 pm:
I HOPE it is working for everyone....I am still learning all the LITTLE things about having flawless websites....many have LITTLE differences.
http://www.tmakowecki.com/Bob%20F%20Ult%20eye.htm
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By MYRON (64.12.103.49 - 64.12.103.49) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 09:37 pm:
HE'S ALL READY GOT MY THREE, NOT ANSWERED, SHOOBIE.
WE CAN'T LET HIM FALL ASLEEP AGAIN BEFORE HE GIVES THE ANSWERS
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By MSK (64.12.103.49 - 64.12.103.49) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 09:43 pm:
NO PIC IN PR
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By Bill Shuba (24.72.27.91 - 24.72.27.91) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 09:55 pm:
No!!pic here either,but I can click on the other above to see it.
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By MSK (64.12.103.49 - 64.12.103.49) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 10:00 pm:
THEY SHOULD BE TOGETHER BUD.
GOOD NITE SHOOBIE
DREAM ABOUT MULTI-CLUSTERS
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By david rodgers (209.226.235.51 - 209.226.235.51) on Monday, December 3, 2001 - 06:41 am:
GOOD MORM BOB FLEMMING. yes i will say i have looked at and handled one pile of different eyes in thirty years and have never seen one like you just posted. and yes i have handled champs that have bred 20 first place winners very interesting to say the least. neat eye.
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By THE WHIP (205.188.193.58 - 205.188.193.58) on Monday, December 3, 2001 - 08:17 am:
WE HAVE THESE CLUSTERED EYES IN P.R. BY THE BUSHEL.
AND YES THEY ARE SUPER IN ALL WAYS.
NOW THAT WE ARE EDUCATING THE WORLD, IT'LL BE A LITTLE HARDER TO CON SOMEONE OUT OF A GOOD BIRD, RIGHT.?????
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By Bob Fleming. (198.81.17.157 - 198.81.17.157) on Monday, December 3, 2001 - 11:55 am:
Who's coning.The first one I ever saw purchased was bought for $5 and the owner insisted that the bird had injured it's eye on a nail. What would you have done? given him a seminar on the spot to make him aware of the birds true value. No way. People have the opportunity to learn this thing but if they choose not to, then that's their problem. Don't frown down on those who know something that you don't. The name of the game is winning by any means that are within the rules. This means to give your self any and every chance you can by useing what ever is available to you.
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By Bill Shuba (24.72.27.91 - 24.72.27.91) on Monday, December 3, 2001 - 12:31 pm:
Bob
I'am looking at this cluster thing a little different than most,OF COURSE,hahaha!What I mean is I think of these as being above average type breeders,in combination with other things like,body,race results,family history ect all the other things one looks for in a great stock bird,AND IN combination with these other qualitys it can be a great breeder,and thats a step in the right direction and gives me a better chance of breeding greater race birds,with some luck!!Anything that may give me a edge over my club mates and yet playing by the rules I'll give it a shot.
| By Jim on Wednesday, December 05, 2001 - 09:52 am: Edit |
By Bob Fleming. (198.81.17.182 - 198.81.17.182) on Saturday, December 1, 2001 - 06:03 pm:
BECAUSE OF THE MISGUIDED ADVISE AND UNSUBSTANTIATED CLAIMS AND OPINIONS BEING EXPRESSED ON OTHER SITES (SPECIFICALLY ENGLISH) ABOUT THESE BIRDS. BY THOSE WOULD BE EYE-SIGN EXPERTS WHO IN TRUTH, DON'T KNOW EVEN THE FIRST THING ABOUT THEM AND, NOT MUCH MORE ABOUT THE ENTIRE SUBJECT. BUT RATHER THAN ADMIT THIS, WILL TELL THOSE INTERESTED IN THIS ASPECT OF THE SUBJECT, JUST ABOUT ANYTHING THAT THEY CAN THINK UP, JUST TO SOUND KNOWLEDGEABLE. FOR E.G BILL CARNEY CLAIMS THEY ARE. CATARACHTS. N CARWOOD. CLAIMS THEY ARE DEFORMITIES WHICH IMPARE THE VISION. BOTH ARE VERY WRONG AND THESE COMMENTS ARE UNFOUNDED AND COMPLETELY SPECULATIVE, FORMED FROM THEIR OWN PERSONAL CONCLUSIONS AND NOTHING MORE. IN THE INTEREST OF SAVING THESE "CHAMPIONS OF CHAMPIONS". I AM MAKING THIS APPEAL TO THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE EITHER DISCOVERED THEM IN THEIR OWN BIRDS OR IN THE EYE'S OF THEY'RE FRIENDS BIRDS OR ANYONE ELSE FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO HAVE ACQUIRED OR BRED CLUSTERS OR THEIR CLOSE RELATIVES. (THE BEADED EYE'S) IN THEIR BIRDS. TO SHARE WITH US YOUR EXPERIENCES WITH SUCH BIRDS. BUT WHAT EVER YOU DO, DO NOT DISPOSE OF THEM. PLEASE BE TRUTHFUL,ALL AND ANY CLAIMS CAN BE CHECKED OUT. OR IF YOU WISH, YOU CAN E-MAIL ME DIRECT @ MREYESIGN@AOL.COM OR, CALL ME ON 818 833 7399. Voice mail available.
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By Roly (62.253.32.4 - 62.253.32.4) on Saturday, December 1, 2001 - 08:14 pm:
Well wacko's.. no Mylon the blather of next above under nothing and soudo wonder of eye sign..... Still my ole mate Billy T is steadfastly, patiencely trying with him, a slight hope yet if the medics allow him enough time out.... but HE will understand this.
A fellow worth a mint or too buys the best 3 does and the best Buck in a Show and considerable cost. Soon he buys a book and learns and searches and fetches and gets many champion rabbits. He don't like swimming so turns the massive out door pool into a koi pond. The office blocks he turns into a rabbit warren and has a nice larconic attitude and becomes very sucessful in the show world, consistantly winning all the top awards.
He wouldn't sale of part with any rabbit.. give the too schoo;l kids. Then starts giving..... believe it or not to any one who wants to show against him!! They purchases the rabbits , or rather are told when they are two days old how many from 1 to the whole litter. Of course they see the parents, see where they will be raised and weaned. They know the lot they are allowed to have will be the ones they will get.
Yet no one has ever had a decent show rabbit of him yet, good dinners yes but never a show rabbit capable when aldult to win a lottery ticket. Yet EVEN the same parents breed for him Champion rabbits. How does he do it at 1 day old?
I'll tell you later, so simple and the same is true of Fanciers who let rivals, plonkers and any one have their birds, knowing full well they might as well fly for Mylon lol who will confirm that the culls are known for certain..... the ones that might just make it or throw something, and the ones of a higher chance.
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By Billy Taylor (216.112.143.185 - 216.112.143.185) on Saturday, December 1, 2001 - 08:23 pm:
Roly my matey, man am I looking forward to inspecting your flying rabbits. Bet we can win a few pints down at the pub betting they can fly out the upper window, down the street and back to the table. Hell you got me convinced and I may bet a few bucks myself. And if the bets are high enough being a HIGH ROLLER, I might fly with them. Lets race. Bye Billy
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By Roly (62.253.32.4 - 62.253.32.4) on Saturday, December 1, 2001 - 08:45 pm:
Yeah Billy, might even wager a dollar on my birds this year... between them lol.
Been doing quite well past three weeks in the show pen. Never done it before but just gus sin en takes out 6 of each class, no washing, clean crap or the likes.. they are fit and in condition so muck don't stay on the feet any way. Haven't won yet in any class, but been bridesmaids like.
Showed a bird of mine to - day, took second in the pen. He Flew 250 as young bird and flew well. Flew to the perch as a yearling and wouldn't mate up but went 425 mile, flew well that year too. Next year prisoner/ broke in, next year prisoner/broke in, but I broke him in three times so since 96 has had three lofts, won a couple, won Bergerac, by 11 hours 525 miles Won Pau 625 miles and this year first bird 400 miles and 450 miles, after losing his mate and rearing two up on his own... cull one? !! no rather have left it in the loft.
Three 96 birds similar. Oh yes has won at 100 miles as well. This year will probably be his last racing year, but as I don't have stock birds they will be a bit of a pain I suppose.
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By Bill Shuba (24.72.27.91 - 24.72.27.91) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 02:48 pm:
Bob Fleming
If you breed 2 of these birds together that have these things,is there a better chance of having them breed ybs with these also.
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By Bob Fleming. (198.81.17.176 - 198.81.17.176) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 04:29 pm:
To Bill. I think your question answers it'self. Of course the the chances are better to reproduce them if you are useing birds with Clusters to begin with.
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By Bill Shuba (24.72.27.91 - 24.72.27.91) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 05:01 pm:
Bob
You have a good point there buddy,Your a pretty sharp guy/girl. hahaha!!!!
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By Bill Shuba (24.72.27.91 - 24.72.27.91) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 05:33 pm:
Bob Fleming
What things can be done to make sure one keeps these type eyes in ones family if they have them,and what are the NO NO'S in breeding for future champs if any.
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By Roly (62.253.32.4 - 62.253.32.4) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 08:11 pm:
Careful now Bob.... tread slowly, the eyes of the whole site, possibly the whole pigeon world are on you now!1 ANSWR. ANSWER if 1 you can and 2 if you dare!!!
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By Bob Fleming. (198.81.16.44 - 198.81.16.44) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 09:53 pm:
To THE WORLD. The question of maintaining what you have is of course a major one, and not just for people wishing to retain Clusters in their birds but, also for those wishing to retain performance like that of the foundation of your loft. However, unlike racing ability, Clusters are easier than that to maintain. Now Think about this. Your best Birds are going to have them so, what are you going to be breeding from??? EXACTLY, So doesn't it stand to reason that breeding from birds which have the feature as part of their make-up, enhances you chances of reproducing them generation after generation and so on. They do just that. This then makes them self maintaining. WHAT A BONUS THIS EYE-SIGN STUFF CAN GIVE US YES???????. It's a great pity that the same cannot be said for performance alone. Keep breeding to it, and you will fade away into nothingness. Champions DON'T produce champions and most winners fail to produce birds as good as themselves. That is a FACT. To my mind this is going backwards. If you can find clusters in youngsters which have never flown, they maybe retained from that moment on for stock with complete 100% CONFIDENCE that they will breed winners.
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By Bob Fleming. (198.81.16.44 - 198.81.16.44) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 10:19 pm:
To Bill Shubie Doo. You are asking some very nice and intelligent questions young man. Now write them down and keep them. Meanwhile ask your friend Frank to give us all the run down on that Mealy with the Cluster. Post it on here so that we can all read it. Now, for those none believers,those perveyers of bullshit about this subject. Those obsticles of stuborness and would be standers in the way of learning etc etc etc.I have never seen this pigeon or heard of it's performances but, I am willing to bet whatever that it's one of, if not his BEST birds. Let's hear it Frank. Thank you.
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By Bob Fleming. (198.81.16.44 - 198.81.16.44) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 10:24 pm:
HOW'M I DOIN ROLY, REKON THAT'L WIN EM OVER. Now if I can get Tom to post the performance of his Cluster and some of the others I've seen around the place. This could be a great and very informative string.
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By Bill Shuba (24.72.27.91 - 24.72.27.91) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 10:39 pm:
Bob
Tom M
could fill you in better on this Meally as far as race results and what it has done as a breeder as Franks a very close friend of his,Also flys in the same club,It also has Toms family of birds blood in it.It really is a SPEACIAL BIRD!!I only hope Frank don't get upset with me for talking about his bird here,I've only met the man once and found him to be one of the nicest fanciers I've had the priviledge to meet.I really should have asked his permission first.
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By Bill Shuba (24.72.27.91 - 24.72.27.91) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 10:48 pm:
Bob
1 More quick question,does a bird with a small cluster,have the same breeding capabilitys as one with a larger one. DOES SIZE REALLY MATTER!!
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By FRANK THE YANK. (198.81.16.44 - 198.81.16.44) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 10:59 pm:
IN RESPONSE. Yes I do have memories of that mealy cock with the cluster. It was only 45 day's old the first time I lost it. THen after a months rest, I released it outside again, and promptly lost it again. After receiving it back from Mexico. I decided to give it one more chance so I lined the coop with road map's of our town and kept it locked up for another three months.Then I released it with a car battery attached to it's leg for an anchor. Yes, I suppose it was a shocking thing to do but, not as shocking as the hole in our kitchen ceiling when it eventually fell off it's leg narrowly missing the wife who was just learning how to wash nest bowles in the sink at the time. Finally, I decided to breed from it and gave it a hen and a box in with all the others. At this point it must have suffered some kind of mental breakdown because it started demolishing the loft and everything in it including all the other birds. I saw it bringing out the other inhabitants eggs two at a time, one under each wing and playing bombing runs with Tibby our cat. There were half hatched eggs all over the back porch. Finally he proceeded to launch a ground assault on our little Tibby which was a very bloody scene.Eventually we raised one baby out it which won every race in the club and combine before being eaten by a flock of Falcons. If anyone should see a little gray pussy which answers to the name of Tibby, Plese send her home, my wife hasn't been quite the same since she and the cat ran off screaming into the woods. Yes Mr Fleming, I remember that bird with the cluster very well.
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By Bob F (198.81.16.44 - 198.81.16.44) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 11:03 pm:
To Bill. You better ask one of the ladies on site about the size thing Bill. Some say it does matter and some say it doesn't.
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By Bill Shuba (24.72.27.91 - 24.72.27.91) on Sunday, December 2, 2001 - 11:05 pm:
Bob
Seeing I do have a bird down from this Mealy and have a PED here,I think it safe I can tell you what is says on it without getting in to much trouble from Frank,I think it also safe to say franks been 1 if not the best flyer in his club for YEARS.IT STATES--SUPER BREEDER number 1 in loft.1st-360 ml-MY VERY BEST.and it is off his foundation pair.
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By Bob Fleming. (198.81.17.56 - 198.81.17.56) on Monday, December 3, 2001 - 01:25 am:
WHOOOOOOOOOO. This is really scary stuff. Grading birds from 3000 miles away which he cannot even see. Wow, how is this possible? That has got to be the longest distance for a bird grading in history. Bill and all. Did you notice that I didn't bother to get you to explain what the rest of the eye looked like or what color it was either. You should wonder why? But, before I could answer any more of your questions Bill, I would have to have this information. Yes they can get bigger but, NEVER SMALLER. These changes are also NOT brought about by the birds age which one E/S man has claimed recently. Eye's DO NOT change from birth, they only develope more into what they already are. The features they are born with become more obvious and are with them until death. Another so called expert who for the moment shall remain nameless, would have you believe that in a broken pied eye. That's one which is half a bull eye and half colored. Will not breed winners until the pigment envelopes the whole eye. What UTTER CRAP. I intend to expose many more of these falcities in Canada. And for those who cannot attend, you have my promise.I will not see you left out in the cold and, I am looking seriously at producing a C/D of the whole thing which, unlike books and video's, will be copy proof. At least that's what I am being told. It's called a wash.???Regardless I will after the seminar, answer every question asked here on site. So why have I taken it on to do this. Because the subject has become so filled with lies and deliberate false hoods that are in my opinion, the main reason why so many people disbelieve in it as a worth while subject to investigate or study. Add to this the stupid invitations from other pigeon scribes for eye men to provide recognized scientific proof of the validity of the subject. Again, I hereby accept any and all challenges to prove me and my teachings wrong on this subject. I have waited so long in the past to no avail, and am NOT going to hold my breath this time either. Bring on your scientists and experts and let's see who is left wondering. I've been proving it for 45 years.
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By Bill Shuba (24.72.27.91 - 24.72.27.91) on Monday, December 3, 2001 - 01:34 am:
Bob
Heres a question for you,have you been in a loft and found many birds with Clusters.
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By Bob Fleming. (198.81.17.56 - 198.81.17.56) on Monday, December 3, 2001 - 02:30 am:
The most I ever found in one loft was in California, at the loft of Mr Don Jones of Chatsworth. He was a successfull flyer from an impossible location and a member of the F.V.C. He had 29.To give you an example of his out of the way place to fly from. He had to drive 80 miles through the hills to get a 20 mile toss for his birds. Now that's got to take some kind of dedication don't you agree.
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By THE WHIP (205.188.193.58 - 205.188.193.58) on Monday, December 3, 2001 - 08:26 am:
SHOOBIE,
HOW AM I DOING ???????????????????????
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By Bill Shuba (24.72.27.91 - 24.72.27.91) on Monday, December 3, 2001 - 09:37 am:
Bob
Did he have a very close family of birds,or were they 57's.Do you find that once you start grading a loft of birds and do come across a bird with clusters,chances are great you would find more of these birds in his loft.
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By TomMakowecki@canada.com (207.229.37.130 - 207.229.37.130) on Monday, December 3, 2001 - 10:03 am:
Now I am skeptical.....If clusters are great breeders and some guy has/had 29 in his loft....then maybe just maybe birds with clusters aren't THE BEST breeders.....I just do not know of any loft that could have 29 GREAT BREEDERS!
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By Bill Shuba (24.72.27.91 - 24.72.27.91) on Monday, December 3, 2001 - 10:51 am:
Very good question Tom.Sure great breeders are judged by race results of their ybs and next generation!! and in poor hands or a very bad location this will not make these look as good as they maybe,but with that many with clusters and that being a sign of GREAT breeders the cream would rise to the top sooner or latter,even inexperinced flyers with great birds can and do win out of turn just on the quality of their birds,good Question indead.
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By TomMakowecki@canada.com (207.229.37.130 - 207.229.37.130) on Monday, December 3, 2001 - 11:32 am:
I have been lucky enough to own 2 "great" breeders in my life. They are really amoung the best breeders I have ever heard about. They may have had some dust in their pupil but I am sure neither had any large clusters. The hen that I own who does have a cluster - was a good racer and has been a good breeder; but she has not proven to be my best! She has been amoung the top 5 or 6 hens but is not dominating with her childrens results. I have yet to ask Frank about his Mealy....he has been laid up with a bad back...barely getting to the loft and back to the house....but from what is written on the A.C. February eyesign game " 1061: won the 360 mile race. All his sons won a race, 5 of his sons were never out of the prizes!" He does appear to be amoung the very best breeders that Frank has; and that is saying something. So lets keep hearing about these clusters...from experience...good or bad.
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By Tom Makowecki, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada (207.229.37.130 - 207.229.37.130) on Monday, December 3, 2001 - 11:37 am:
I should have added that he (Frank's 1061)has 2 different eyes 1 kind of a bull eye - the other is VERY _ VERY similar to the 2 great breeders I owned...1061 is a grandson to one of them. So in my book I had picked him based on that eye...not the clusterred one.
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By Bob .Fleming. (198.81.17.157 - 198.81.17.157) on Monday, December 3, 2001 - 11:39 am:
To Tom. BiLL isn't wrong. But few FVC members have families as such. Don Jones was no exception and, being a man of means,he like the rest, preferred to change birds if they wouldn't perform to his liking. Yes he had a 57 coop but, they were the the best from many a good auction or sale. As I said, to be 10 miles off the line in Southern California is rediculous. Even 100' can make a difference in the so called bowling alley. believe me I know. I was only one mile off it and could see my birds break from the first batch each week, but that extra mile at 90 degrees just kills you. To those of you who are not familiar with it, make some inquiries, It is a very unique place to fly birds and can make a novice look like an ace if he get's in the right location.
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By Bob Fleming. (198.81.17.157 - 198.81.17.157) on Monday, December 3, 2001 - 12:10 pm:
To Tom. Tom It isn't my place to tell you about your own birds but, you have two birds with Clusters. No 2322 also has one.Please tell us about this one too.