CLEANING THEIR NAVALS CAN SAVE YOUR BABIES FROM A HORRIBLE DEATH.
The Discussion Centre: Training & Loft Management: CLEANING THEIR NAVALS CAN SAVE YOUR BABIES FROM A HORRIBLE DEATH.
The good habits are by far the best to get into, and one of these is the regular inspection of the underside of each youngster.
I do this automatically the very first time I handle them when the babies are ready for banding at 5 day's old.
Just turn the youngster over and check the the crop for excess water then, the naval which should be flat clean and dry and smooth to the touch when passing your finger over it.
If you feel a small lump or pimple over the naval opening, you should remove this immediately by gently pulling it out of the naval by gripping it between your 1st finger and your thumb nails or even a pair of tweezers can be used.
If you look closely at this naval plug which you have removed, you will often see a small amount of canker attached to the end of it which came out of the naval, and this is what your babies DO NOT NEED and the reason for the whole exercize.
There is nothing more annoying or repulsive than to find a baby that was fine looking and healthy etc 3 day's prior, but suddenly now has a naval canker that grew so fast that it cannot be treated without it being a major job involving drugs and or even surgery etc.
To my mind, this is negligence on my part for not spotting it earlier.
I have always worked on the premise that the first 30 day's of a pigeons life are the most important in it's entire life, and if ANYTHING goes wrong during that time, It's culled.
After the opening of the naval is clean and clear of debris. Dab a very small amount of VASELINE on the spot and gently rub it in. This will prevent any dirt from re-accumilating again in the opening and, it will heal up to be almost invisible.
Doing this is beyond many people but you would do well to get into the habit ASAP. YOU WILL AFTER YOUR FIRST CASE OF OF NAVAL CANKER. 
Bobo, Dont disagree with your treatment for naval canker. All I ask why were the breeders not given a preventative prior to putting together. Also even the OZZIE at his seminar mentioned that after the first round a treatment of c/c may be helpful. Also a shot for para/pmv before putting the breeders together can help prevent dyings in the eggs, etc of the babies or dying at about 10 days. Now again some pigeons that look well and perform well are carriers of paratyphoid. Identify these suckers by keeping records and give them to a competitor soonest. Pigeons from the North East, say New Jersey seem to be eat up with it. Lets race. Bye BillyT
That's an excellent responce Billy but, the canker I'm talking about in this instance is EXTERNAL canker, and not that which starts inside the bird like throat canker etc. Pre breeding season internal treatment won't stop it.
I have seen this kind actually grow on the outside of the rib cage, the crop and on the back of the bird and reach a sive of 2" across before dropping off leaving a big bloody bare patch which, in old birds, eventually grows feathers again and leaves no sign that it was ever there.
They could even be tumors from Paratyphoid but, they are yellow with dark areas in colour, as hard as a rock and that's good enough for me. CANKEROUS looking. But then again I'm no vet.
Well there is no real cure to prevent Canker' coming back. There are nigh 30 different sorts, hence need different strains of cure / prevention any road... they soon become inmune to that treatment and that's a fact. Besides many a good bird has canker that ails it none.
And me pesonally wouldn't / indeed care to see any reason to prevent a egg death. If it can't make that stage on it's own it won't ever do what I would wish it too. Hence keeping a cull for / till .. what a waste of feed, effert and time.
Just my thoughts.
Hi Roly...Agree with you no help what so ever from me in the nest the parent's are treated before pairing and that's all.Good feed,grit,oyster shell,mineral's,pickstone and iodine twice a week at 5 drop's per gallon,wash drinkers twice a week with bleach and don't rince out the bleach just empty and fill with clean water,I do use baby formula on the feed 3 time's a week simply because i get it free,Light's on for the breeder's 24 hour's a day. bill butterfield
I agree with both of you to a point however, you must remember that my information had it's roots in a tropical climate, and anyone familiar with this will tell you that MOST diseases will increase in their ability to spread at increased speed to how they grow and develope in colder regions. Canker for eg will grow to incredible sizes in no time compared to how it behaves in the colder climates.
The idea of pre breeding season madication programes is good advise, and I too do it but, in the open air of the tropics where external canker abounds, this internal treatment alone really is a waste of time, canker will prosper like you wouldn't believe. The southern states of America must have the same problems.
Navel canker (external) is one which really demonstrates this warm HUMID climate excellerated growth ability, and my personal beliefe is that it is caused by the constant dampness in the nest bowls that need to be cleaned out and fresh dry nesting materials added at least twice weekly.
You are not really molly coddling the weaker young ones, you are just protecting ALL the youngsters from the dangers of natural external parasites and deseases which are more numerous than in the colder climates.
Like the first and last Bob in as much as I don't have the climate, and If you can pull it out by all means do so. But there will still be a fair % left of course which you will / would have to still treat. Canker doesn't actually drain anything from the 'Food Sauce' as such.
'Nested in Swathling Babes'and changed daily would also have a good out come. and tame the birds from scratch. anti leave the parents well alone brigade. I do because I'm too lazy to bother to tame mine. I'd rather watch from the side lines and have my pleasure as to the constant in loft / handling sybdrome. but that works real well too!
Last Yb season had a strain of Mouth Canker in some babies from the Carabbean that was resistant to any and all know treatments. Never got passed to my birds but lost 3 of 4 of those birds despite individual treatment and separation in the hospital. Like Malaria northen climate flyers do not have to deal with most diseases like we do. In my opinion you can decry the natural all you want to, but preventatives are in order here. Lets race. Bye BillyT
Billy T,
How do you treat your birds for Malaria?
Here in Brisbane Queensland we have a hot humid climate with lots of mossies. I beleive that our birds could get a form of malaria.
Bear
Bear,
Interesting point. I've often thought the same. The birds often get a fever during mosquito season but not the pox that is normally associated with this. I believe that there has been some malaria cases recorded in North Qld in the last month or so. Quite logically it is only an aircraft trip away. When I was in Cairns two weeks ago it was the same temperature and almost the same humidity. Scary.
Jim,
I'll catch you this Saturday when I colect the Journal.
When I was working on the garlic page Al Leamon of the FVC sent information from an article that suggest garlic "may block the parasites that cause malaria". If there is a problem with pigeon malaria in your area it might help.
Ray Peterson (NJ) told me one time that if you eat one or two raw cloves of garlic per day you'll never have a cold or flu. He never had either for 50 years. Maybe noone will get close enough to you to give you any germs????? Just kidding about this last sentence.
I've heard that if only one of a couple eat them it's an effective birth control also.
Sunset, Even if both eat them you can still smell it.
I need it .. two or three raw cloves in a 'sarnie'
Don't stop all the girls from trying to get their way with me.. But slows them down a bit.. And gives me a little space in between to recuperate lol.
Roly, now that is another point of view.
I do not pretend to be a vet but there are some diseases that are without symptoms in pigeons, such as subclinical respiratory, carriers of Salmonela and Malaria. Your pigeons will look, feel and be race ready, but will arrive home 30 minutes or more late and you cannot determine why. A treatment for all the above as a preventive is called for in the Southern climes. To not do it is to give you an extra problem you do not need in your management. The natural no med guys in the North will advise against but it has been proved time and again that if you have misquetos in the South you must consider malaria. Post one to the vets and see if I am wrong. My thoughts only. Lets race. Bye BillyT
Roly, I recall Billy saying you "are a force" all this time I thaught he was refering to you as a pigeon flyer not as the town stud.
Small s back to your study of hoppers. Was trying to stay off your case, but as a frog runner you dont dont when to quit. Log it. Whine to Jim and bring on the Fourflush emails. You are a joke as a pigeon flyer and your theories are just a magnet of your ego. I just tolerate you as a demented alsheimer poster without ever being a contender. Lets race. Bye BillyT.
Hand in Hand Sunsett ... lol.
To Mike Jimmy And Bear. Yes there is MALARIA in pigeons in Australia. They look great fly around the house good etc, and handle fantastic but, come late on the races. (They run out of steam)
The best cure is one ATTABRINE tablet in the drinking water every thursday pm. 1 TABLET per gall. AND BE SURE IT IS COMPLETELY DISOLVED. Put it in a bottle of water in the morning and leave it all day to dislove. And as with ALL medications, You must also put a strong dose of sweet TASTING vitamin suppliment like "VITA STRESS" in the same water because of the very bitter taste of the Attabrine. This will stop the effects of the Malaria bug and actually gives the birds a slight boost at the same time.
There are also other more modern drugs which are used to treat it, one of which is PRIMAQUINE. Others include any drugs which are of a quinine base.
There is no total cure for the condition, and it can be passed on from parent to youngsters via ANY and all blood sucking parasites such as mosquitoes and or flat fly's and pigeon fly's etc.
The beliefe that Garlic in any form, can cure or treat the disease is false.
In the warmer climates, my advise is to accept it as an every day part of pigeon flying and treat for it accordingly like respiratory canker and cocci and pox etc but, only treat for Malaria during the racing season on thursday PM. After removing the drinking water after the morning meal untill it is replaced with the treatment in it that evening.
I once brought a friend of mine from Australia to watch how Americans fly Birds, and he too learned about Malaria while he was here. On returning, he had several birds checked by a vet and ALL tested positive for the disease??????? His name was Finley Fraser. An ace.
Mreyesign, do they take a blood sample to test for malaria? Can any vet do it? Do they get over it eventually on their own. Like if they had it as YB would they be over it by OB on their own?
Marvin dont know if you can determine Maleria by a blood sample or not, but as usual the vets here send a dead bird to Texas A&M to confirm maleria. Defy you to race that bird next OB season. Part of my as stated before disdain of most vets. They will not put their reputation on the line because of fear of suits and usually pass the turd on to someone else. Dr Gord in my opinion shows this inclination, as good a man as he appears to be.
Bobo, having many years experience treating maleria, in my opinion the best product is Aralan. It is in pill form and 2 must be crushed to a gallon of water and the treatment needs 21 days as a preventative. Also two crushed in a gallon once a week during racing will keep any maleria in check. Although misquetos may carry maleria the biggest spreader are the pigeon flies who are blood suckers. The Northern flyers do not have a clue since they wouldnt know a pigeon fly if it was on their fly. But disregard in the south at your peril. Pigeon flies or pigeon jockies do jump in the crates. Lets race. Bye BillyT
BillyT, I have seen a few pigeon flys up here. Actually just a glimpse of them..haha. Man are they fast. Don't know if we had any the last few years. Anyhow, like you said, we don't get them like down South. When do you treat for Malaria? Just before the season or during the race season?
gentlemen, if one change water daily, should have no problem with mallaria,mallaria is transmitted through contaminated water and the virus need time to incubate.the one that gets transmitted through mosquito bites is dengue fever which is deadly ,humans or animals the carrier is tigger mosquito, the one with white dots ,if this is pressent one should find the source stagnant water and elliminate .if neccesary remove the birds and spray the whole area at dusk, they most likely vissible at this time of the day.always rick
further, if one compulsary bathe entire team ,stock and breeders with mallathion once before racing season and repeat on a warm day a few month before breeding season,one has treated for lice , flies and created a repellant for insects.always rick
To Marvin. Billy is correct and the average vet does send the blood sample to a testing lab for conformation.
A blood test is the only true way to determin the presence of Malaria.
It CANNOT be cured or eliminated. And must be treated for as suggested by Billy, BEFORE and DURING EVERY RACE SEASON that your bird or birds are to be flown in.
Regular bathing will also not prevent the insects from spreading the disease in the race crates. It is not transfered by the drinking water as in humans and is contracted from contact with BLOOD sucking insects of which there are many, and it is NOT known which are and are not capable of spreading the disease.
The drug Billy mentioned is one of those newer modern drugs now available that I mentioned are now available, and although I have never used it. I would suggest that you take his advise and do so. Attabrine is very difficult to obtain these day's.
You can also do the actual blood test yourself if you have a microscope, and know how the Malaria bug affects the shape of the blood cells. It isn't a difficult thing to learn but, REMEMBER the following advise and play it safe. If you find that one bird on your property has Malaria, ASSUME THAT THEY ALL HAVE IT.
This cautious attitude can also be applied to your local area and combine and all the flyers in it.
If your birds are treated and bitten by a fly or mosquito after this or while they are on the treatment, they will not be affected.
Stock birds do not need to be treated neither do young birds until training begins and they have had a few short tosses.
The treatment stops them from running out of energy.
Mreyesign, I never thought about Malaria in this part of the Country before. But it was extremely hot up here this last Summer and my YB did act like you described. Exercised great but were late from races. A few did good but many were really puzzling to me. Possible.
Do not know if it is correct or not but old fancier in Adelaide who gave me a lot of advice said that youngsters who developed external canker in the nest did so because of contaminated spilt crop milk, ie if the parents where carriers of canker and when feeding the youngsters some of the crop milk ran down over the youngsters if there was any small cut or if the navel had not healed yet the canker would find the opening and develope from there. The youngster would be sitting in this crop milk so would be very easy for it to get into the navel area.
That makes sence to me Bear because all pigeons carry canker treated or not. All we can do is to keep it at an acceptable level so your buddy may well have been right.
You are right on Bobo, no matter how many times you change your drinkers or clorinate, if you are not on top of maleria in the south, you are not doing your part. So easy to prevent so hard to not know why your healthly and sound birds cant win. No outward symptoms, no panting, fluffing or reluctance to train or fly. Once I pointed this out to a couple of my club members both posted birds to A&M, both positive for maleria. Agree breeders and pets it does no harm. Lets race. Bye BillyT
Camouflaged Pigeons
Why do fanciers camouflage the ills of their birds? Alternatively, treat them to look, and appear better than they really are?
For instance, one likes or hears that top fanciers like their birds feathering tight and silky …Therefore, they add a little bleach … causing other treatments to be necessary.
On the other hand, they put oil upon the feed! Yes, oil may well be good in relationship to races of certain distances, but that is another topic altogether.
They ‘Firm the Droppings’ up using certain additives … even colouring for the Brownie rolls as to the green etc.
They use garlic to have a nice bright eye etc. etc.
Yes these treatments, additive may all be well and good in different scenarios, but they are oh so very often used for the ‘pleasing of the eye’ instead of useful realistic purposes.
A good healthy pigeon will have the qualities that are pleasing mostly within their own merits.
I believe that the purpose of looking the part means that the real reason / state they should be treating, or applying certain treatments for specific things are consequently overlooked and too often not attended to.
You won’t ever win a race from a bottle or a can … but also 90% of races owe the success of the winning pigeon to a Bootle / can content.
Yes it may well be there are times when illnesses, distressful symptoms etc occur, it may well be – not always – a time when our help to over come certain problems is needed. However, I feel never to make a bird look the part.
Roly,
Pigeons with weak constitutions need every fortification.
Jimmyoz
Pigeons with weak constitution never win any more that a 'Paper Bag' race on a strong tail wind day.
Roly,
good flyers have a good axe.
Jimmyoz
Now your talking about the earlier sorting of 'chaff' etc. So if the axe had been used better, or more often then the birds with a poor constutition wouldn't be in the loft.