Here is a question that I have pondered for many years so I'll post it and see what each of you think. Over the years I have observed that the speed you drive on the way to a release point my effect the results of that toss. What I mean is that when training a flock of birds, if you drive 60 mph or less on the way to the toss the birds do better than if you drive 80 mph. In this observation it seems that if you drive faster than they are used to flying themselves they take longer to get home. Now after a few tosses driven out at 80 mph they learn and will do fine on the tosses after that. This is if you release them immediately upon arrival. If you let them sit a little while it does not seem to matter. Just wondered if anyone else noticed this.

By Sunset on Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 07:58 am: Edit

Hi Marvin,
I never drive that fast training so I have no idea. My training route is mostly major highway. Normally I cruse at about 70. I sure would be a happy camper if I drove 80 on the return trip and found the birds in the loft waiting for me on my return.

By Makmike on Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 10:26 am: Edit

Hi Marvin,

I always drive bettween 80 - 84 on the highway when the posted speed limit is 75 both on the way up to release and on the way home.

Have never have noticed any difference but I usually let my birds sit for 15min - 20min any way on tosses 50mi or more.

By the way the Wife took the birds on their 55mi toss this morning. Isn't married life just Great?

Mike Makaimoku.

By Marvin on Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 10:53 am: Edit

Mike, I used to try to confuse the birds by letting them out immediately so I could beat them home (before Unikon). But after a few times it does not matter they learn. Now I still release them immediately out of habit and because I am usually "racing the sun". Like last night I got them out to 60 miles and sundown was 7:32. I was real concerned at 8:00 and no birds yet. Then they hit at 8:04 with barely enough light to trap.

By Makmike on Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 11:05 am: Edit

I know what you mean, I use to do the late evening tosses also Marvin on purpose even out to 55mi but mostly at 18mi. I don't have the intestinal fortitude that it requires to do those any more this time back into Racing Pigeons.

Mike Makaimoku.

By Mreyesign on Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 11:46 am: Edit

It's a pain sometimes but,it pay's great dividends in the long ones though. I always get to where I toss from before sun up and if I am group tossing, let them go after about 5 minutes sitting. They get up really high until they hit the sun light then, Zooooom away they go. Does it help them? who knows, but it's pretty to watch.

By Marvin on Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 11:50 am: Edit

Mike, I don't have a choice. It is dark when I go to work. Last night it was 80-85mph to get them out that far. I wasn't going to go tonight but one of our new guys is going to have to work late today and his birds need to get a toss. I'll probably take his out and release mine shorter on the way back. I'm always babysitting someone. But I don't know any way to get the new ones going but to help them however I can.

By Mreyesign on Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 12:13 pm: Edit

Good for you Marvin.

By Marvin on Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 01:30 pm: Edit

Mreyesign, years ago I could do some tosses in the morning so I would go as far as I could so they would be back just in time for me to feed them and then go to work. Then rush home and take them out as far as I could to get them in just before dark. I found that if I released them before I could see the electric wires they would sit down in the pasture and wait for it to get light.....but if I could see the wires (about 1/2 before sunrise) they would go fine. That year they would average about 50 mph on the training tosses. That was way too much work! Now I like to get them to range around home much of the time.

By Billytaylor on Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 04:12 pm: Edit

Marvin in my way of doing things, you are doing it right. Forget how fast you can drive. Most of the time you cant beat them home anyway when they are healthy and conditioned. I really like the sunset releases. You already know you get day birds on the hard ones. Rub it in and make your competition be demoralized. Get a full moon and you will have night flyers. Lets race. Bye BillyT

By Roly on Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 08:00 pm: Edit

Evening training is done a lot for Distance birds. Upto Middle distance you should if possible train at the times they will Race!

By Sunset on Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 09:15 pm: Edit

I don't think the name of the game is game is to make anyone feel "demoralized". I think the name of the game is to give your birds the best shot at doing their best. It still takes the bird on the day to win. The bird's gift between the ears will do it. Some like to take credit. I think they only lie to themselves. The bird wins often inspite of the handler. And one hell of a lot depends the size of your club, your location and the wind of the day. A few like to take credit and will say "Here me, smell me!" I am the ultimate in the game. I beleive that winning pigeons are a gift. The bottom line will never change. The bird wins! Not the handler,he/she has made a contribution at assisting the bird to be in condition to do it. The only honest claim any flyer can make is: One of my birds won. It's great to know that I had a small part in giving it some tools to do that.

By Makmike on Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 10:01 pm: Edit

Sunset sorry if that was all it took most of the best racers would be the rich. All you'd have to do is have more money than the next guy and just buy all the best racers, best breeders out there.
And you'd win.

I do give credit to the birds and there are alot more good pigeons than there are handlers.

But again there aren't very many Great Racing Pigeons that are consistent either in the Breeding Loft or in the Racing Arena.

That's what one of my old partners thought, that money would buy him success.

Well all the money without knowing what the H*** to do When or When not to do and Why. Didn't give him that success. Mike Makaimoku did. I did it back when we were partners, before we were partners and I will and am doing it again. We can't win them all but those that know how to accomplish the job will do the best at getting it done. Even without the Greatest birds there are out there. Good birds just makes it that much easier.

Mike Makaimoku

By Makmike on Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 10:02 pm: Edit

Forgot to add we can all still enjoy the game no matter which way we choose to play it.

Mike.

By Sunset on Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 10:42 pm: Edit

Makmike I agree. A family of good birds make it much easier. Good birds is the key. good management of good birds. But the bottom line is still the birds. Not the manager. He/She is the trainer movator, but can not fly the course. The bird alone can do that.

By Tommakowecki on Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - 11:32 pm: Edit

There are many homers, some racers and very few real champs......but a great handler can get all three types to have champion type days! The manager is the wheels...with out them - even the best motors will only make noise.

By Jimm on Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 07:21 am: Edit

As an old friend said years ago about another flier " The birds won in spite of him."
Just a thought..and I believe a handler can do eneogh to not get good results out of very well bred pigeons.
Just my own observations.

By Mreyesign on Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 01:36 pm: Edit

Jimm. What a great way to compliment a man's bird's and, call him a shit flyer without actually calling him a shit flyer. I love that.

By Billytaylor on Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - 02:13 pm: Edit

Small s then how to you explain not racing OBs because all the great birds but 5 were lost and not racing the program in YBs because of whatever? You defy logic. Time for your next electroshock treatment. You are as I have said before a joke when it comes to pigeon flying. But like any ant hill, the queen will get her dues. Anyone who listens to you on how to fly pigeons is doomed. Ya'll do it and tell me I have misjudged this racing phenom. Log it. Jim the Magnificant note it. My opinion only. Lets race. Bye BillyT

By Roly (62.253.32.7 - 62.253.32.7) on Saturday, August 14, 2004 - 06:30 pm: Edit

Well see the Games have started.
Hats off to Micheal Phelps for going up against The 'Torpedo' Thorpe. Could have gone for the 200 Back stroke instead and avoided him. Should be some race that. If Thorpee get the 'Needle' he'll beat him I feel. But seems to have lost his edge of late. ... Where as the Phelp boys at 19 is up for it. Good also to see Hacket drop down and win the Silver . Crikey tha Keven Klete of the USA that took bronze looks like a twin brother... reckon Dad had a dinghy?
Shame Greece are dawdling about the Bannong of their athletes.. Better just to chuck them out and be better thought of. WE kicked out our Best Footballer we really needed for not turning up for a test and banned him.

By Jimmyoz (211.29.64.90 - 211.29.64.90) on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 04:29 am: Edit

Roly,
Phelps is a champ & good on him. But the words of the USA's Gary "Loud Mouth" Hall will come back to haunt him yet again. Thorpe & Hackett might just smash them like guitars. Our girls showed the world how it is done in the 4x100 m Freestyle.

Those Canadians never stop making me laugh. Calling their swim team, "The Beavers."

Go Thorpe, Go Hackett, Go Ozzies Go, Smash the Yankees Yo! Sorry Fellas

By Bill (24.42.194.157 - 24.42.194.157) on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 08:46 am: Edit

Hi JimmyOz.. Take it easy on us Canadians it hard swiming in ice water, thorpe should try draging an ice burg around with him you guy's do have an advantage when swimming in the sea you have sharks to help you go faster we have beavers to hold the water back ha.ha.bill butterfield.

By Jimmyoz (211.29.64.181 - 211.29.64.181) on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 02:24 pm: Edit

Bill,
Sorry, shouldn't be so cruel. Do those bears swim?
Now we've lost our 4x100m mens crown I'll go & cry tears of rage. But my friends, that's what the Olympics is about - the surprises. The person who comes from the pack unexpectedly & rises to the moment. It's a bit like that pigeon that gradually improves from a day late to become a 500 mile winner. Nature abhors repeated perfection so eventually throws a spanner in the works. It keeps humanity alive & proves that the likes of the Nazi's Arayan dream is genetically flawed. No lion or family of lions remains dominant forever. This is one reason why pigeon super families eventually fail &/or get overhauled.
Jimmyoz

By Roly (62.253.32.7 - 62.253.32.7) on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 03:08 pm: Edit

Well looks like it will be a hum - dinger tomorrow .. Stick with Thorpe he looked cool and very confident. World record 14?
Yep Ozzy, the girls of yours are the buisnes. But the lads are very trying.
Phelps 8 Golds is down to 7 NOW!

By Roly (62.253.32.7 - 62.253.32.7) on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 03:32 pm: Edit

Talking about 'Shooting' off their' mouths. Our commentated of the 'Basketball Game' was saying how they were 'Shooting of their Mouths' before the games started and spilled it as being just a 'Formallity' having 27 wins on the trot and Peurto Rice stuffed them! Seems they will loose a bit of money as 'Basket' ball is supposedly their game. That's the beauty of the 'Olympics' like you say Oz.

By Jimmyoz (211.29.204.122 - 211.29.204.122) on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 03:55 am: Edit

Roly,
Look at our girl who won the road race. She wasn't even in the calculations. Then she just rode around the German girl who was left looking the other way.
Jim

By Roly (62.253.32.7 - 62.253.32.7) on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 06:22 am: Edit

Oh yes, and it does the heart good.
Then the girls who refused to share the 'Work' in breaking away... and pinch the mdals, Next time! It was this Time as their may not be a next time.
Think that all competitors must a little selfish if they want results.........

By Jimmyoz (211.29.205.169 - 211.29.205.169) on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 03:07 pm: Edit

Thorpe went like a Widowhood cock on a promise. Phelps has made one mistake ie he has forgotten that it is not laid out on a table. It's a bit like the flyer who believes that because his birds have peaked that nobody elses have. I admire Van Den Hoogen Band (somethings missing there) who doesn't give an inch & yet still seems to smile whether victor or vanquished. Poor old Phelps looked like someone gave him Epson Salts.

OZZY OZZY OZZY

By Roly (62.253.32.7 - 62.253.32.7) on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 08:00 pm: Edit

Yep. 8 Golds will be lucky if he gets 5 I reckon.
Same as Hackett, puts up and shuts upand has a go. Think he'll win the 1500. Nice if Po gets one too at the distance.

By Roly (62.253.32.7 - 62.253.32.7) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 03:13 pm: Edit

Van Den Hoogen Band ... well whatever is his name, did the job and just didn't he do well ... and Torpedo did well too for the bronze.

By Jimmyoz (211.29.204.72 - 211.29.204.72) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 03:49 pm: Edit

Two outstanding athletes. It is Hoogies pet event but it shows how fast Thorpe is to get a bronze in the sprint. Considering that he was going to take on Hackett in the 1500m - that is versatility. Give me pigeons like that.

I wonder how many records we would have seen if the Greeks had put a roof on the stadium? They've been screaming about getting the Olympics again for the last 50 years then stuff it up. Whatsmore they don't even bother to attend. As for their supposed culture, they haven't achieved anything in 2000 years. A bit like some flyers I know who talk about what they did in the 1960's. Live now & achieve now.

By the way, has anyone got a cure for an overdue baby? The Mrs was due Sunday. This Squeaker just doesn't want to hatch.

Jimmyoz

By Roly (62.253.32.7 - 62.253.32.7) on Wednesday, August 18, 2004 - 07:50 pm: Edit

Whisky and Epsom salts mix and a few quick runs I guess ... It will Be here when time is time.... Nowt else, otherwise if impatience a quick slit and snip or two. Golly how easy the girls have it after all the hard work we have to do eh!
Well done mucker and all the best to you both.
And also shows Hackett is no 6' 6'' slouch too.
I believe many pigeons are like THAT! iF good they ARE GOOD .. if not then also flowns.
It all depends, as far as I am concerned, what Distance the OWNER likes, and often hen it comes to the Distance what HE is prepared to lose, or SEND. AND NOT LOSE!

By Jimmyoz (203.164.250.215 - 203.164.250.215) on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 03:10 am: Edit

Roly,
"& Son" member of the flying partnership has still not hatched.

It's a good point about the flyer determining the distance. I used to fly against a bloke (ex-Yorkshire) who was an outstanding sprint flyer. He bred 10 youngsters for the top distance flyer in the club. She won the 780 miler with one.
Jimmyoz

By Roly (62.253.32.8 - 62.253.32.8) on Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 07:09 am: Edit

Stan Biss.. rated regardless of being a Brit ... as one all time great pigeon fancier worldwide at the distance . But as Posted in 'Birds of Merit' his win he sprints too. Indeed Natrix was renouned for winning the first, and shortest distance race. then a palamoss / Maiselle etc. then the last short distance race of the season!.....

By Jimmyoz (203.164.250.194 - 203.164.250.194) on Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 04:39 am: Edit

Where are you all - Watching the Olympics I suppose. I bet the pigeons haven't been fed for a week.

Yep! Grant Hackett (with a chest infection & all) couldn't be beaten in the 1500 Freestyle - 4 successive golds to Oz in this event. Our 4x100 Medley Goddesses broke the WR. It's a good night to open a bottle of Oz Red. Nah, I can't. Junior still hasn't hatched.
Jimmyoz