Thanks for all those that helped me with ideas for a new loft. One of the main reasons for building a new loft is my current loft is a heat trap. I know it has been stressing the birds. One of the problems I am having is that the baby birds die a few hours after hatching or they die while trying to break out of the shell. Most everyone I have mentioned the problem to tells me the birds must have paratyphoid. They didn't show any of the signs associated with the disease, but I vacccinated them anyway. I took a fecal sample to a local vet. He said that the birds are free of any diseases he can see from a fecal test, but a fecal test will not show paratyphoid. He suggested I put my breeders back together and see if the babies will die after having vaccinated the stock birds. Two days ago the first baby hatched and was dead after a few hours. I took the dead bird to the vet to have him run a test on it . The test result was negative for any viruses. So why are the baby birds dying? Has anyone else run across this problem or know a good pigeon vet I can call?

By Brad on Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 02:09 pm: Edit

Hi Scooter

Just out of curiousity, are you using any kind of a nest pad in the nest bowls?

By Davidtichbourne on Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 02:33 pm: Edit

Scooter how hot does your loft get? I put a whirly turbine in the roof of my loft this summer and it does a great deal to help with fine dust and keep the air flowing. I find it can never be hot enough, but I am in Ottawa, Canada.

I found I caused young birds to die due to moisture this past spring under my nest bowls. There are many contributing factors to bacteria infecting birds though..
I suppose heat or cold (-15C) on pigeons parents and babies does introduce stress and then you have the plethora of things that can go wrong. I found I had to raise my paper nest bowls off the floor of my nest boxes because there was condensation under them, causing dampness.

Also, use bleach in the water, really helps to reduce nestling fatalities... see Levi's book "The Pigeon" and other references on the internet. I would use bleach at 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon per gallon, I don't like using it but it really seems to help for nestlings and young birds. Only thing I regret about bleech is not adopting it sooner.

Later,

Dave.

By Scooter on Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 02:35 pm: Edit

Brad, I do use a pad. I also throw in Austrian Pine needles (about 10 inches in length) for the birds that want to build nests. Some have used the needles, some just lay on the pads.
To give a little more information, I got my first breeders in March. Through April and May, all the babies survived. The first pair of babies that died, hatched the first week of June. The temperatures had increased to the 90's or more and from that time until mid July, I did not have one baby live(9 different pair of eggs).

By Scooter on Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 02:50 pm: Edit

Dave, I hadn't thought about condensation under the nest bowl. I ordered my nest bowls from a major pigeon supplier and was disappointed when I recieved dog dishes that I could have paid half the price at my local pet supply store. I will cut holes around the edges of the bowls to kept the air from trapping under the bowl. I have read that many people use bleach in the water. It just hasn't settled right with me. Sounds like I need to "get over it" and try the bleach. Thanks for the suggestions.

By Davidtichbourne on Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 03:04 pm: Edit

Well I made a lot of dumb mistakes with my breeding this year, first time in 25+ years.
When I was a kid I bred lots of varieties of pigeons in little crates in my back yard, and I don't think I ever had one die on me...but this year I was trying too hard I guess. I would put lots of small holes in a plastic dish, and just leave most of the bottom circle solid. If I was using pads I would even have some holes in the bottom of the bowl.

If I get some extra cash I will buy proper pigeon pottery bowls with a round bottom, I think pottery will absorb a lot of moisture and also act as heat sink.

I had several rounds of youngsters in 90+ heat this summer and although they do get hot the parents still sat on them, most of the time. A dry nest box is fairly safe in my book even if there are a lot of dry droppings in it.

Good luck, raising youngsters is as important to me as flying the birds.

Dave.

By Marvin on Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 03:32 pm: Edit

Scooter, I don't think that the heat would cause the babies to die. My lofts get more than 100 degrees in the Summer and I have no trouble raising youngsters. As long as they have plenty of drinking water all the time I have not seen a hot loft cause those problems. I try to keep my lofts as hot as possible to bring on the form.

By Mikev on Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 07:09 pm: Edit

Scooter. Try 3-4 drops of iodine in the drinking water. The young are either sick or deficient. It sounds like the Vet has eliminated the disease idea so something must be missing in the birds diet. Try a couple of different pigeon grits, a good multi vitimin with electrolits in the water and some pick stone in the loft as well as mineral powder. Also, try a little salt. If they eat any of this like crazy, they are telling you they are deficent. A top grade pigeon pellet may also help.

By Billytaylor on Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 07:17 pm: Edit

Tic amazing how you have become a new flyer to an authority with an agenga in about 2 months. Boggles. Take sides and you will be amazed. Lets race. However Oscar says you are a good guy, which is good enough for me. Sometimes I wonder. Bye BillyT

By Mreyesign on Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 07:53 pm: Edit

Scooter. You don't need a vet, you need "Ventilation" THE RIGHT KIND. Your birds are dying from exhaustion. You are lucky to even get them to break out of the their shells, and when they do, they are so exhausted they cannot muster up enough strength to call to the parents to get a meal. The problem is in your loft design and that's all. Open it up or install fan's or air conditioning.

By Brad on Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 09:25 pm: Edit

Scooter

Get rid of the nest pads. I don't remember exactly where but I did see an article that claimed nest pads contributed to losses in hatchlings.

By Brad on Wednesday, August 28, 2002 - 10:07 pm: Edit

Second attempt to get this to post

http://cedarvalley.virtualave.net/articles/vet00-1.html

By Scooter on Thursday, August 29, 2002 - 10:21 am: Edit

Thanks for all the suggestions. I will make some adjustments and see what happens.

By Mreyesign on Thursday, August 29, 2002 - 12:59 pm: Edit

Good move Brad. I have a lot of time for that guy, and if he say's it's caused by nest pads being damp and infected with bacteria, that's good enough for me.

Remember the following and you will never have a problem like this to contend with. The three ingredients for creating a bacteria rich environment are. Warmth, Dampness, Darkness.

The one thing that most bacteria cannot exist in and could be classed as natures own disinfectant, is SUNSHINE. A loft where sunlight can shine into and onto the floor and perches etc, is usually a disease free loft.

I never use nest pads or paper machae bowls but, have used treated saw dust and or sand about 1" deep in the bottom of the clay or terra-cotta bowl and this is then covered with clean shavings and fresh (green) pine needles straight off the tree and NOT from the ground. Change the nesting material at least twice during the first 28 day's of a youngsters life and clean the navals with tweezers if needed at banding time (5 day's)and apply a dab of vaseline. Check them again periodically and especially when weaning.

By Billytaylor on Thursday, August 29, 2002 - 02:23 pm: Edit

Scooter you are getting good advise. Open the loft to the elements, keeping out wetness and allowing for fresh air and sunshine. How would you feel in a hot, sticky, wet, sunless room. Probably think about blowing your brains out. Lets race. Bye BillyT

By Mreyesign on Thursday, August 29, 2002 - 02:31 pm: Edit

To Barry. Ultra Violet light is NOT filtered out by fiberglass panels in the roof or windows made of glass. This is the best way to let the sunlight in and yet keep the rain and dampness out.

You also seem concerned about too much ventilation? I can only add that, it is almost impossible to overventilate a pigeon loft. We do tend to molly coddle our bird's too much.

In their normal habitat, bird's live in tree's and bushes which provide very little shelter from the ellements.

The best breeding boxes I ever had were made up of louvered door panels all round as wall coverings. Just like those louvered cabinet doors in kitchens, linen presses, closets and bathrooms. If I ever rebuild, I will use them on all the external walls, and especially the louvers that can be opened and closed with the turn of a handle. To my mind they would be the ultimate.

By Davidtichbourne on Thursday, August 29, 2002 - 04:42 pm: Edit

Hi Billy, did your '02 YB races start yet?

I've refined my agenda for this site... its to enjoy this site and feel proud of it, and increase your blood pressure when you get out of line. You have been good lately so I have no comment now.

I did a long toss this morning, hopefully that will help my returns this weekend, I'll have about 20 going to New Liskeard which is 391km or 243 miles for me. Last weekend I didn't do well as my birds missed the previous race and were locked up the previous week as I was off on vacation that week. I had 25 back on 32 from Marten River which is about 222 miles for me, that was more than double the birds previous distance.

One interesting point though was that I had a couple of well muscled May-June breds, their first race was Marten River, 222 miles after, a 7mile, and two 25 mile tosses. These little guys did better than many of my older birds. (I am not using darkening this year).

take care,

Dave.

By Roly on Monday, September 02, 2002 - 06:18 pm: Edit

I would race to a Tree if I could clock them.
Ventilation is every thing. In the front hitting the back and drag up through the middle is as good as most will get.. with a good circulation.
The only reason Twings etc. are used is for the squab to cling it's feet to.. most important if one dosen't want splayed legs etc. Also Remember that crocked keels are the FAULT of the loft manager.

By Marvin on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 08:58 am: Edit

Roly, I have had a few crooked keels over the years but have not figured out why some do and some don't.

By Marvin on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 09:06 am: Edit

Roly, the "tree" idea must work. Art Steffen had an old dead tree with a flypen built around it and the lofts connected to the flypen. He was the top loft in Denver at the time.

By Billytaylor on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 02:15 pm: Edit

I could not agree with Roly any more insistant. I do understand that different climates require different means to ventilate but I find very few wild pigeons froze in KMart parking lot in the winter. Do see dead birds in some of my club members lofts on occasion. These competitors are usually no threat on race day. Suck the good clean air or suck it up last on the sheet on race day. Lets race. Bye BillyT

By Roly on Tuesday, September 03, 2002 - 09:24 pm: Edit

Bones are soft when youngsters are first born.... this is when the nest bowl should have been well ready. Never used or would use bowl mats. Every thing that is compressed gets hard. harder than bones, and with a wieght. even 14 ounces lightly sitting on a wop sided youngster damage will be done. Bet you never get a wood pigeon with a bent keel!
But remember any thing wrong with a youngster, be it soft feathers, sprinely, weakly or whatever has a bad constitution. That bird will never be any good to beat the better ones in the loft let alone competitors. Nor will they ever breed good healthy youngsters. Ans seldom do ill brought up y/bs stay the distance. they will fail as sure as eggs are eggs when it matters.
Like some of the young birds I see in the moult and raced. we wouldn't dream of send an old bird like it, now would we!
Yet many do.. Yes and I will admitt that y/bs will come through it and show the hardiness of the birds. But I often wonder if this is why lightly train y/bs turn out better latter in life than the winners of y/b races do. Indeed is that a reason that many cull all winners and nears at seasons end.

By Pigeonpete on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 09:14 am: Edit

It's my guess that crooked keels in youngsters is a genetic flaw, rather than an environmental problem. I've had the occasional youngster come down this way, with a perfectly normal nestmate. I've also had the occasional splayed leg youngster, in a well built nest, along with a perfectly developed nestmate. As breeders, our job is to select and only breed from the very best to insure improvement in each generation. Also what the guys are going on about regarding ventilation, is absolutely correct. Build an environment as close to the natural state as possible, if possible.

By Roly on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 03:32 pm: Edit

Sorry Pete must strongly disagree. It is 100% caused in the nest bowl.
Genetic, poor constitution .. even ricketts wouldn't, couldn't bend a bone.

By Mreyesign on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 03:44 pm: Edit

Bent keels are not such a big deal anyhow. I have had and seen plenty of good birds with them. I think it's the nesting material myself but it still isn't a big deal.

By Tommakowecki on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 04:01 pm: Edit

I agree Bob...One of the best breeding hens had a bent keel. And my Ace Cock from 2000 - also had a wave in his....but I still don't like them.

By Billytaylor on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 04:32 pm: Edit

Why take a chance, if you have good nest and get bent keels or splayed legs out with the breeders, you can do better than that. So what every blue moon a bent keel or a splayed leg YB flyes good? Do you want a loft full of them? You need to construct an invalid loft where all the wire hitters, hawk bit and splayed can breed you champions. Probably charge to show your club mates a freak show. Lets race. Bye BillyT

By Roly on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 07:22 pm: Edit

I am a bit tired tonight but will post tomorrow why we get crooked keels, what the keel is for and how to advoid crooked keels.
But let me assure you all it is the fault of an oversight or bad management of the 'Fancier'.
Many great birds have developed a crooked keel, slight to real bent and been top class.
I can't recall ever having one... let alone bred a bird that had one.

By Roly on Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 07:22 pm: Edit

I am a bit tired tonight but will post tomorrow why we get crooked keels, what the keel is for and how to advoid crooked keels.
But let me assure you all it is the fault of an oversight or bad management of the 'Fancier'.
Many great birds have developed a crooked keel, slight to real bent and been top class.
I can't recall ever having one... let alone bred a bird that had one.

By Roly on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 03:35 am: Edit

Ok when born / hatched the bones (Keel included)
are 'Cartilage' which is elasyic and pliable.
NOW is the time that bent Keels may occur. It may be slight or bad. but that is why and how it happens.
It is only after the deposits of Lime salts going into the bone structure that causes them to become rigid. It is two fold of importance that 'Preventive measures are taken rather than cure.. for there is no cure. Once the bone becomes set it stays that wat. So before mating up, during mating and after the nessassary stuff is fed. Again why I say birds and fitness are so very important. AND the nesting must be suitable.

By Billytaylor on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 01:34 pm: Edit

Roly is right, once the bones harden they cannot be reformed. Forget the rubber bands, cut hoses or panty hose. But if you are observant enough and keep good records you will see which breeders most of any maladies come from. Provided you pay attention to giving enough vits and calcium to support those breeders. Unless you keep invalids, cull these babies and breeders at once. You are taking up precious space in your loft. Lets race. Bye BillyT

By Mreyesign on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 01:40 pm: Edit

Well said guy's. Give them OYSTER SHELL GRIT twice weekly during the breeding season and the problem never arises.

By Mreyesign on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 01:49 pm: Edit

My name is Richard Head. I think crooked keeels are caused by the birds flying in the same circles all the time and think that if you will make them go the other way round, the keels will straighten out, but don't let them fly that way too long or the keeeels will bend the other way I think????????Of course the best way would be to get them to fly in a figure of 8 pattern then all there keels would be straight. And i CAN PROOOOOVE EVERY WORD so there.

By Pigeonpete on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 02:32 pm: Edit

Breed the best to best and forget the rest. I think most of us tend to hold on to a bird here or there which may not measure up fully. Maybe it looks good or it was down from a real expensive money maker. Every fall we always end up with too many so let's do the racing pigeon world a big favour and be selective.

By Mreyesign on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 02:59 pm: Edit

Well now we know you are not me because I would never pass that advise along. It's best to best and hope for the best. GUESS WORK, nothing more but nothing less.???? HA HA HA. Now why didn't you answer the e-mail I sent you darling.

By Pigeonpete on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 03:11 pm: Edit

It's in your box,bitch!!!

By Mreyesign on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 03:22 pm: Edit

I was just reminded that we had a guy in the FVC called Richard Head or was it Michael?? Whatever, I had no intention of being disrespectfull Mike where ever you are these day's. It was just a pretty weak attempt at being funny on my part. Sorry Pal.

To those who originally believed that Pigeon Pete was Pete Pobor. He isn't.

By Scooter on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 02:20 pm: Edit

Two and a half weeks ago, I took another dead hatchling to the vet. He sent it to a lab in California to have a complete pathology study done on the bird. I got a fax back but I don't have a clue what it means. I called to get an explanation and was told that the doctors are gone to meetings for the week.

The test results from the fax said:

Diagnosis:
1) Ventriculitis: Moderate acute diffuse ventriculitis.
2) Lung: Diffuse mild to moderate acute interstitial pneumonia.

DOCTORS COMMENTS:
This particular bird appears to have a primary ventriculitis that may have resulted in a septicemia or toxemia. No specific microorganisms are identified. However, bacteria or bacterial toxins should be considered. An underlying viral infection is not definitively identified in these sections and, given that the bird's die in less than two days, it is less likely that this is a viral infection, as incubation of the majority fo viruses is longer thatn two days. Review of the diet offered either the parents or the hatchlings is reccommended.

My understanding of the above test results is that the death of my baby pigeons is not related to a viral infection. I have had them tested for bacterial diseases with have all been negative. The report suggests that it could be an improper diet. I feed a pigeon mix from a local seed company that many pigeon fanciers in this area use. I always have grit and oyster shells in front of the birds. I add red cell to their water a couple of times a week for minerials. I was putting their water in a galvenized metal container. I don't know if that was releasing toxins, but I recently changed to a plastic container wondering if the problem is something as simple as that. I don't have a clue what Ventriculus or Septicemia are. If anyone out there has any further ideas, please help!

By Davidtichbourne on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 05:37 pm: Edit

Hi,

Septicemia is bacteria in blood, ventriculus bacteria in gut,...I am sure the vet did a good job but he might not be a pigeon guy. Eggs can be infected from the hen too...and then the babies from parents...paratyphoid can kill quick, but with babies this young I think cocci or canker too..

try surfing around www.albertaclassic.com a wealth of info there, pigeon vet references too.. I have a few links on my personal site too www.pigeonplanet.com.

I would treat the parents for cocci and canker, and after treatment put a little bleach in the water every day, 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of water ( prevent paratyphoid), before and while raising young. Don't put any other stuff in the water and yes do use plastic.

I kept the bleach in the water for my young birds most of the summer, while they develop and I don't regret it. (See Levi's book the pigeon where he talks about using bleach in the 1950's and the results for commercial squabbing.)

remember cocci, canker as you will probably see them again...but don't get more exotic than paratyphoid....these three diseases..well the bacteria they represent are the main troublemakers in my opinion....viruses do happen but get the obvious stuff out of the way first.

good luck..

By Tommakowecki on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 05:48 pm: Edit

To die at such a young age......it must be infected - right in the egg. Bacteria like paratyphoid........would be my first guess...but a guess. The vet should do a culture to identify "which" bacteria !! And then they can tell you which drug/antibiotic will kill it. Good luck.

By Roly on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 07:40 pm: Edit

Not much chance in curing a day old chick. Then why would one... The chances must be high that -even if cured - it would be ailing for quite sometime, and never reach a high / good constitional level. Yes to all sense and purpose fine .. but to compete at a high standard, in good competition are real long odds .. could, but the chances of a healthy reared bird doing that is high. let alone a weekling.. but good for dreams and 'Hollywood.
No sort the old birds out.. and the inviroment...
Prevention. you have had the yellow card.. RED is next.

By Scooter on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 08:05 pm: Edit

I have had my vet test for canker, cocci, paratyphoid, and e-coli. These are the diseases that most people I have talked to seem to think the problem is related to. But my vet said with a lot of confidence that they are not the problem. He said any of these bateria would have shown up in the culture tests he ran. I did treat the birds with dacoxine (4 in 1) when the problem first started. I then vaccinated for paratyphoid, PMV, and pox. If ventriculitis is a bateria, then there obviously is something floating around my loft that I am having a hard time identifying.

Incidently, I had a baby hatch yesterday afternoon. I just checked and it is still alive with a full crop! I know that doesn't mean anything to you guys, but I haven't seen a two day old pigeon since the first part of June. (I have my fingers crossed) The only things I have done different since the last pair of eggs is to start feeding the stock birds garlic and change from the galvanized water container to the plastic. The temperature has cooled down, but it wasn't near the summer highs when the last set of babies died.

I do appreciate the suggestions and help. I will definately check out the web sites suggested.

By Roly on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 08:16 pm: Edit

I have proposed before, and I will again... check for one of the 28 strains of Samanella.
Oh so many so called 'Popular' well know desieses are blamed for Samanella. Possibly isn't... Yet!
Also I would search real close for any tell - tale signs of Mice. rodents, etc. Even sparrows etc. that may venture into your loft.
I also treat any water around / near my loft for the same as I treat the pigeons.
In fact a spot of Bleach etc. in a water can and spread about is a real good idea. Treat any and everything that may come in contact with your birds where possible. It can only help.

By Bill on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 08:42 pm: Edit

Hi Scooter..Is all of your egg's hatching or are there some that turn black inside if the later is happening you have paratyphoyd if not then try some iodine in the water they my be lacking some iron and are not strong enough to survive. bill butterfield.

By Billytaylor on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 08:56 pm: Edit

Scooters the problem is with the breeders. Something is amiss with them. Some breeders are carriers. I suggest a full clean up for c/c/w para and pmv before continuing to breed. What have you got to lose? You are not racing yet. Better to start out right than try to diagnose failures later. Also make sure there is no latent diseases floating around in your loft. Clean and disinfect. Remember pigeons have survived thousands of years only the handler can cause their demise.Lets race. Bye BillyT

By Scooter on Monday, October 07, 2002 - 09:01 pm: Edit

There have only been two eggs not hatch. They pipped, but died before they were able to break out.

By Mealy on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 08:39 am: Edit

Scooter.

I feel that the cause could well be the drinker. If you check out the boglin marsh site at http://www.boglinmarsh.fsnet.co.uk there is a series of articles for novices by the late great Spinksy. In one article for novices (Novices Social circle) he advises against the use of metal drinkers because of what they release in the water, check it out. Good luck. I have plastic drinkers and have two per section, whilst one is getting used the other is soaking in Virkon disinfectant for the following day.

By Scooter on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 02:03 pm: Edit

Mealy,

I had read the article you are referring to. That is why I changed to the plastic drinker. One other thing I changed that I forgot to mention was that I removed the felt pad from the nest on this last set of eggs. The baby that was born two days ago is still alive. I got in touch with my vet today. He said the pathology report did not find anything specific enough to identify as the problem, though it did rule out any virus' or the bacterias we have mentioned.
The problem may have been something as simple as changing the drinker or removing the felt pads.

By Tommakowecki on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 02:09 pm: Edit

Scooter: Are the pigeons you are breeding from closely related?.....I have seen VERY INBRED pigeons die in the nest.....never that young but at about 2 - 3 weeks. (Obviously a bad gene somewhere....) Good luck - It could be the metal drinker - especially if you used bleach or certain antibiotics in it.

By Lauri on Tuesday, October 08, 2002 - 02:41 pm: Edit

When I started out a couple months ago, I chose as probiotic a way to care for my pigeons as possible. I'll give them antibiotics if I have to but I'd prefer to prevent the problem if I can. I bought a supplement from Chisholm Trail lofts, part of which includes 'deOderase' a compound from the Yucca plant that is supposed to reduce the amount of Ammonia from the droppings 'up to 75%'. Their literature says not enough oxygen (ventilation, as mentioned in the posts above, too much ammonia) is really hard on baby birds.

All my birds are still doing fine-two babies included. The supplement sure hasn't hurt them any. And, now that I think about it, my loft doesn't smell too bad either.

Lets see how well I do vaccinating them! that lesson is this week

Lauri

By Roland_Z on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 12:19 am: Edit

You said you were soaking the drinkers in virkon.... are you rinsing that off before refilling and using again? too much disinfectant can't be good for youngsters.

By Mealy on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 03:52 am: Edit

Roland.

It is I that soaks the drinkers in Virkon. This is a very dilute concentrate. To be very honest with you I do NOT rinse the drinkers only dry them off and this leaves a protective layer over the drinkers. This has never done any harm and Frank Harper MCVS, says in his book that 5ml to 8litres of water is good to give the birds for treatment against fungal infections. I suppose it acts the same way as bleach does, but very expensive.

By Baetensd on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 04:25 am: Edit

that is the right spirit: if in doubt, always take the most expensive option LOL

greetz,
D

By Mealy on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 05:35 am: Edit

D.

Is this a swipe????

Did you forget that I work in a vet field station???

Got to have some perks eh!!!

Also the only disinfectant known to kill 17 species of virus
also salmonella and E coli.

So it is not only the expensive option but by far the best.

By Roly on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 07:01 am: Edit

Now there is a thing.. and realistic too... if not pray tell, WHAT is!!

By Baetensd on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 11:22 am: Edit

mealy,
yes i still remembered that and figured out that you must have gotten easy acces to it LOL.

if we desinfect, most of the times we use Dettol nowadays but we don't desinfect our drinkers with it ...

greetz,
D

By Mealy on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 11:44 am: Edit

If I had to pay for it, i probably would not use it as it is so expensive, but it is a fantastic product. It is expensive but a little goes a long way. I have found no problems using it to disinfect feeders or drinkers. I scrub the boxes with it prior to breeding as it has an active use of 3 weeks as it leaves a protective layer.

By Billytaylor on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 02:06 pm: Edit

Mealy why get exotic? All you are trying to do is steralize. As many on here have said ordinary bleach will do this. Keep the pocket change, do it. Rinse the drinkers after using bleach and before using antibiotics, since beach will kill the good as well as the bad. Lets race. Bye BillyT

By Billytaylor on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 02:08 pm: Edit

See all you Wahoos tomorrow. Carol and I are flying to Windsor early AM. Lets race. Bye BillyT

By Davebooth on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 05:09 pm: Edit

Hi Billy ,Keep the beer cold and see you and Carol tomorrow.Or if Bob F. is their before us he can keep it cold for us .

By Lost on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 09:10 pm: Edit

Have a Great time guys.....Wish I could have been there to buy you all a round or 2.....

By Davebooth on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 06:25 am: Edit

Hi Bill Shuba ,Sorry you could not make it ,but maybe next year.Best of luck next year in the races.Chat later as we are getting ready to head out.

By Mealy on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 09:12 am: Edit

looks like it will be just roly, Bill S and myself for a few days now.

By Roly on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 01:09 pm: Edit

GEEAAAH.. may be able to stay out of trouble for a while then... I know Scoobie will be restless, probably start a fight with himself lol.

By Sarmy on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 07:45 pm: Edit

I`m still here too Mealy, No Windsor for me eiher , will be racing this Sat from Gainsville same station as last weeks disaster, going Solo this week as my son is playing hockey in Boston this week and my wife is there with him, Late ! Sarmy

By Lost on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 07:53 pm: Edit

Hello Roly,man its been awhile hasn't it,glad I'am back and Glad your still plugging away here.Your the fighter remember....I'am a lover,not a fighter..haha.Whats new bud.??

By Lost on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 07:58 pm: Edit

Hi mealy and Sarmy....Well now that all the experts are away for awhile..except My buddy Roly of course...we may be able to learn a few things..haha..how was racing this year for you fellows and what is your take on eyesign...Oh I can just hear Roly Now..haha..

By Mealy on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 04:07 am: Edit

Hi.

For me I thought racing was very hard this year. I race in a very strong club and was in the lower half of the sheet in all races. My club is the best in the fed and take most of the top positions week after week. I could join a "lesser" club but then i would only be fooloing myself. In the long run I would still be racing against my club members even if i was in a different club. It was all experience for me this year just conditioning the birds. Got lots of help from Roly which I am very grateful and he sorted me out with a team of birds. Just acquired a new property so will have to rebreak the pigeons to a new loft. hoping to race the cocks on widowhood this year...any tips guys.

By Baetensd on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 05:03 am: Edit

Bill S,

how did the fishing go this year ? and did you manage to race birds ?

greetz,
D

By Baetensd on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 05:13 am: Edit

Mealy,

doesn't the possibility exists there to split up your team and race in the other club too ? or must one stick to one club ? if it was possible then it would be a good opportunity to test the difference between the clubs

will your new loft be far from the old one ?
when are you planning to move them ?

greetz,
D

By Mealy on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 05:31 am: Edit

I could race in the two clubs, but i am on a tight budget and funds do not allow. I test them myself as I get a race sheet for both clubs so i know where i would finish in that club, and my position would look alot healthier.

I am moving approx 2 miles from other location. I am currently erecting new loft at momemt and hope to have it finished in approx two weeks time, as i only have a Saturday to work on it

By Baetensd on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 06:04 am: Edit

mealy,

you have to be carefull with comparing results that way, sometimes a certain club gets always slower races , also if people from other 'faster' clubs try their luck there with their best birds...(at least that's what we see here sometimes)
do you have to pay a lot to race in a club ? over here it would make no difference if we would send the same amount of birds to one club or to 2 clubs (well there would be a small difference of let's say 1 € for the result list and the use of a clock but that's all)


2 miles must be possible to do without too many problems, but it's never ideal i suppose (we once got a few racers from someone from the family who suddenly passed away and he lived 2km from us ... we placed them apart from our birds in a small loft and altough they raced good enough, the lady who still lived at the old place said they saw them there on racedays ... not long but every second is too long i guess nowadays .. the difference is that these were all birds that had raced at least 2 years on this addres ...)
i think its a good thing you try to finish the loft quick enough so you can move them before the winter ... they will all be yearlings i assume so you won't have too much trouble with old cocks fighting too much with the new ones on the loft ...

greetz,
D

By Mealy on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 06:12 am: Edit

Thanks D.

That was my main concern, as the birds will have to fly over the loft to get to the new one.

By Baetensd on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 06:16 am: Edit

mealy,

that is perhaps not the worst thing ,as they don't have to get too far off line to visit their old loft.
But anyway, this can only be a problem this year

greetz

By Tommakowecki on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 09:55 am: Edit

Mealy - Are both the clubs you mention in the same combine/federation? If so - it shouldn't really matter which one you race with. If not then why not fly with the so called weaker club? In all the games of football, hockey, baseball...we work our way up to the professionals. Winning in weaker competition shows us - we should be moving up. Just my oppinion. I think you guys who have a choice are very lucky.....here - I have one club ....that's it !

By Mealy on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 10:40 am: Edit

Hi Tom.

Yes they all go on the same transporter and libbed at the same time.

Our federation is made up of approx 13 clubs sending about 2500 birds each week.Young birds our average birdage in our club only was 725 pigeons. There are three very strong (membership) clubs the rest are made up of very few fanciers. We also fly in the North West Combine about 50 clubs sending 5-6000 birds.

We are spoilt here but the membership is dropping fast

By Marvin on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 12:17 pm: Edit

Mealy, I guess if we all agreed then we would all want to buy the same house, car, etc. I agree with you that I would fly in the strongest club if I had a choice or as David said maybe both. I believe the reason that we have so many small clubs in the large areas is because flyers are chicken to fly in the real competition.

By Tommakowecki on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 01:07 pm: Edit

I used to feel that way Marvin; but now I see many new fanciers getting discouraged and quitting after 5 years. They try but have a tough time to do really well.....most started just to have some fun and find that there are several really serious competitors and they just think they can never beat them. But then maybe these fellows would only be in it for a few years regardless. I don't know. But I think its a bit like hockey or baseball....playing against others the same ability as oneself is more fun than playing against the pros and being beat all the time. Just my opinion.

By Sarmy on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 04:38 pm: Edit

Hi Bill , Racing has gone OK so far I haven`t won a race since week one and this is week 5 but I have had birds close to the top all of the last 3 races. I`m hoping for a good race tomorrow and am getting ready to sort through the birds and see who goes and who stays this week. As far as Eyesign goes I have no take on it as of yet but I do believe it has some merit to it when it comes to breeding however I have not been flying that long and am still reading and learning to be more knowledgeable about eyesign and racing, glad to see you back! Late! Sarmy

By Lost on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 08:45 pm: Edit

D...Never raced old or young birds this year Jumped some in a race or two but was too busy working to see them or clock them on return and haven't done much for fishing in the past 4 months,Next year..!!Thanks Sarmy I'am glad to be back.
Tom I'd forgot you were not going to Windsor,Did Frank and the other fellows there go??

By Tommakowecki on Friday, October 11, 2002 - 11:28 pm: Edit

Frank did go - but I don't think anyone else from here managed it. We'll get his Western perspective when he gets back...hope the boys treat him well.

By Lost on Saturday, October 12, 2002 - 02:30 pm: Edit

Tom..Glad to hear Frank made it there,he'll enjoy himself I'am sure,He's a great guy and pigeon racer so he can't help but make friends.Take care.

By Davebooth on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 08:06 pm: Edit

Hi All ,Well 1st place was won by
Omar Vanwellingham ,from Manitoba I believe Congrats to him.
2nd place was Billy Taylor Great flying both of you.
I met and chatted with Frank Ceserio And wife they sure are a great couple and very nice people.Hope more of you guys and girls come to the convention from out west .Also chatted with Joe Visser and wife and the Chadwick Boys from B.C. all great people.

By Roly on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 09:26 pm: Edit

Well done mucker.... I thought you would win it easily - personally like - but flukes happen. Next year we'll have to send a couple of 'Van Den Pluckers it seems.
Congratelations too are in order for Omar Vanwellingham.. must be a good bird to beat our Billy. Well done to the both of you.

By Billytaylor on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 10:50 pm: Edit

Thanks Dave Booth and lovely Jan. You two made the CU a success. Best to you both from a real admirer of your dedication to racing. May you kick Rodgers butt often in the races. Lets race. Bye BillyT