I am posting to inform you all that the new form of Clorox Bleach is NOT recommended for use with our birds in the drinking water. According to Dr David Marks DVM. He advises to ONLY use the tried and true generic brands of plain bleach which are also cheaper and do not contain any of these latest additives. The latest Digest also features an excellent article on Cocci and it's affect on performance in racing birds by Dr G Chalmers DVM.

By Billytaylor on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 04:58 pm: Edit

Sorry Bob, if we believed the "dont sue me vets" we wouldnt treat our pigeons without a vet saying so. Bunch of no loads, Marx and Chalmers especially. Two liquid duds I never met. Lets race. Bye Billy

By Bill on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 05:25 pm: Edit

Hi Bob Had that advice on my web site for some time very well put. bill butterfield

By Roland_Z on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 07:29 pm: Edit

There was someone on here the other day still advocating the use of epsom salts as a "purge" That person must be very old or dumb. (or both)
And Roly, you must be a very good fancier indeed to win in spite of using lime.

By Bshuba on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 07:35 pm: Edit

Roland
I'am suprized but happy to see you getting in a few shots,stick around buddy.Careful though the darn guys shot back.hahaa..Are you also going to the convention.?? I'll be talking to the guys about E-clocks at our meeting,When ever that will be.?? normally when the year books are out.I'll get back to you about that then.Thanks Buddy..

By Mreyesign on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 07:37 pm: Edit

R/Z. You would be surprised as to how many people have gone full circle back to lime. And as a gentle LAXATIVE, epsom salts has few equals. If used correctly. So welcome aboard and who are you my friend from where etc. Introduce yourself and get your feet wet.

By Roly on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 07:38 pm: Edit

Roland to Roland, I agree about the Epsom salts.
As for lime as long as it don't blow in eyes.. or powder lungs I am A great believer in it. Even to the stage of having it in the drinkers as a preventive.. and many of our club do the same.. only one had Y/B's sickness.. never again... coincidence or what not is a bone of contention.... but many are swearing by it!

By Roly on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 07:41 pm: Edit

Have noticed you posting before Roland, But I perfer Linseed as to Epsom salts as a natural laxative.... But when do birds need it?

By Billytaylor on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 07:45 pm: Edit

Roland Z, name is Billy Taylor. 19222 Jurgen road, Tomball, Tx 77375 and I do advise epsom salts, Where is your wee wee, Gut check. Back in your shit hole or can you defend your position? Lets race. Bye Billy

By Bshuba on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 07:49 pm: Edit

Roland
DUCK.!!!AND TAKE COVER.!!hahaha

By Bear on Tuesday, February 19, 2002 - 08:54 pm: Edit

Glauber salts will do the same as Epsom but is not as harsh.

By Rjp on Wednesday, February 20, 2002 - 01:56 pm: Edit

Billy T
while they are talking about salts, i remember in one of your posts that you put salt in the bath,
would it not take the oil off the feathers? chefs use it to soak up the fat spilled on the floor.

By Billytaylor on Wednesday, February 20, 2002 - 04:00 pm: Edit

Rjp, not sure. This bath formula I got from my old Scot Pard back in Virginia. Said a handful of salt precluded any mites or pigeon flies ever getting on the birds. My bath water formula is a handful of iodinized salt, a dash of bleach, a dash of apple cidar vinegar and a handfull of 20 mule team borax. Once thought salt might inactivate ebands, but not so. Give them a weekly bath on Sunday and I am sure oil will be back by Friday (day of shipping). But I never checked. Lets race. Bye Billy

By Roland_Z on Wednesday, February 20, 2002 - 04:03 pm: Edit

Billy, one day I'll come to texas and have tea with you. I fly in the same club as Makowecki and have been reading and posting here before you.
Lime tends to leave a basic residual in your loft, (as opposed to acidic)and therefore provides easier conditions for salmonella to thrive, or other organisms that require basic conditions. Hence the effectivness of things like ACV (provides an internal acidic environment)
As far as epsom salts as a purge.... I've never seen an anal retentive pigeon, unless Billy has managed to instill that in some of his birds.
Roland Zacharias
Compass Loft
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

By Roly on Wednesday, February 20, 2002 - 04:15 pm: Edit

Steady RIP I have stated that about salts in water .. chefs using it to dry up. I also said why one wouldn't be adviced to use it in regardsof hard or distance races. Sprints will possiblely get away with it but...... I was shot down lol... My High horse scarpered lol.

By Billytaylor on Wednesday, February 20, 2002 - 04:22 pm: Edit

Roland Z, glad to have you come on down. I promise to be nice. Too bad you have to be nice to that tree hugger, TomMac. Now notice in the bath water, apple cidar veniger (acidic), also a dash of vinegar in the wednesday tea, same in the Friday turkey baster drink. After you clean your loft thoroughly every day while the birds are in the basket ready for road training, spray down the loft with a mixture of a gallon of water, an ounce of bleach a dash of pyretherin and a handful of acidified copper sulfate. You are absolutely right, you will never have salmanella, especially if you also vac your birds with salbac. However, it is hard to argue with the old timers who did use lime. Never tried it. Now if you have wire floors, there is a product called cedar side grandules. If your birds cannot get under the loft to it, it is a new meracle treatment. Runs off fleas, flies, mice, snakes and all such. I let my YBs go to the ground during the early days of training and some ate the grandules. Didnt seem to hurt them, but I closed up under the lofts after that. Now get some epsom salts and use it yourself, cures running of the mouth. Lets race. Bye Billy

By Roly on Wednesday, February 20, 2002 - 06:39 pm: Edit

There is a product.... often look at it which is a purpose made lime for the loft.. I'll think of it name some time lol

By Rjp on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 08:32 am: Edit

BillyT
What i do is make my WH cocks sit all fri afternoon preening there feathers ready for the race. about 1.00 i bath them in a bucket by hand
as some times fit cocks wont take a bath and i dont have to let them out. i know this could take a lot of time if you have a big team. it also keeps them calm. a lot of flyers like bloom on there birds but i dont am i wrong?

By Rjp on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 08:39 am: Edit

Roly
sorry i must have mist your post about salt.

By Baetensd on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 08:56 am: Edit

Rjp,
i don't know if i get it correct, but if you give your birds a bath the friday before they will be racing in the weekend, personnally i don't think that is the ideal option if there would show up some rain on race day ... the oil and the bloom on the feathers make that the droplets of rain aren't adsorbed but easily removed ...
greetz,
David

By Topgun on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 12:32 pm: Edit

RJP & BAETENSD,

With my Widowhood Cocks have always bathed them on basket day. And have won on tough’s days that there was rain or inclement weather. I got this idea from the book on the Van Hee’s, tried it and liked the results or benefits of doing so that I thought were there and have continued ever since.

I personally like to do this because I feel and notice that when I bath them it also brings out the oils in their feathers, which I feel is good if you do have some rain. Besides the calming effect for my widowers on basket day.

I also bath my Y.B's on basket day and have had the same results as with O.B's. Just my experience and opinion.

Mike.

By Baetensd on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 12:49 pm: Edit

mike,
of course, if you tried the different systems and you found this the best you should do it,
i just tought it might be dangerous to take away the bloom just before race day ...
greetz,
David

By Mikev on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 02:57 pm: Edit

I have always understood that the bloom was for lubricating the feathers, not waterproofing. In any event, I believe it is fully replaced in less than 24 hrs.

By Bshuba on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 04:42 pm: Edit

Mike
right you are lubricating feathers..I've always noticed when one lets his birds out the first thing they will do is shake off their bloom before taking to the air..BUT I've also noticed when W/H cocks are in form or very close they don't shake this bloom off,My thinking is they don't Make that much bloom at that time..Probably why a bird in form don't take to a bath much..But a bath is a great thing to give,I think..

By Baetensd on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 06:00 pm: Edit

to all,
if we give a bath,
it's the day of the race after they arrived and we took away their hens and it is a ... (looking for the word: not cold and not hot) bath and i rub their muscles while i hold them in it (more like a massage like cyclists get after racing )
that way they will sleep that day and recover fast
greetz,
David

By Marvin on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 06:20 pm: Edit

David, Lukewarm is the word I would use for the temperature of the water. Actually maybe not...lukewarm would be when you put you hand in an there is no feeling...same as body temperature so it does not feel hot or cold when it touches your hand.

By Baetensd on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 06:27 pm: Edit

LUKEWARM is what i was looking for :-)

By Mreyesign on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 06:48 pm: Edit

Well we all do thing's diferently but bathing on shipping day???????? one of the best pooling guides is to see the bloom standing up on their backs just before shipping. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't want to try it Cal's birds, he would kill me.

By Topgun on Thursday, February 21, 2002 - 10:36 pm: Edit

Bob,

Your not wrong and I'm not right. That's what makes this sport or hobby interesting many roads lead to ROME...

Mike.

By Rjp on Friday, February 22, 2002 - 02:18 pm: Edit

when my WH cocks are on form there neck feathers are very shiney and seem like seperate from the rest of the body, it looks like an ice cream cone stuck on, the only bloom up around the ears.
i was wondering as bloom floats could it trap water to the feathers in heavy rain?

By Mreyesign on Friday, February 22, 2002 - 02:57 pm: Edit

Well, my opinion is that the function of BLOOM is to waterproof the bird in flight. Have you ever given your birds a bath after returning from a race. They appear to get "very wet" but, such is not the case ordinarily. Yes the bloom does wash off but is replaced very quickly????????

By Bshuba on Friday, February 22, 2002 - 06:55 pm: Edit

Heres a interesting thought..How much bloom does a duck have.....Mom and dad had ducks on the farm and the duck coops were not covered in white bloom as in a pigeon loft...

By Billytaylor on Friday, February 22, 2002 - 08:15 pm: Edit

Rjp, I suggest you find out for yourself. Train your birds in the rain, not a downpour but a light rain. You will be surprised how the good ones will arrive on time and not totally soaked. Might win you a race, if they have experienced some rain. Lets race. Bye Billy

By Myron on Friday, February 22, 2002 - 08:43 pm: Edit

SHOOBIE,

DID YOU EVER EAT A BLOOMIN DUCK.??? HOW BOUT A GREASY ONE. THE'RE SOAKED IN OIL.

By Tommakowecki on Friday, February 22, 2002 - 09:40 pm: Edit

I think the oils help keep a pigeon dry....more than the bloom. Bloom is just the byproduct of changing skin and feathers.....and as you can see from a bath....it washes off a pigeon fairly easy.

By Bshuba on Friday, February 22, 2002 - 10:25 pm: Edit

Myron.
ahahaa Good one,that was funny..and very true about the grease{oil} I'am sure your right Tom about this bloom,much like dandruff,and the oil gland our birds have is used for water proofing their feathers.Myron a blooming Duck...boy I sure walked into that one.haha

By David on Saturday, February 23, 2002 - 05:08 am: Edit

HELLO BILL S. bill the next time you and your buds are out catching those barnies. check to see how much bloom they have comming off there feathers once in your hand.pigeons flying open hole or in heavy trainning dont show much bloom.compared to the ones locked up right now.as to the oils or bloom helping a bird fly better or faster in wet weather is a myth to me as the two best birds i have ever had in my hands had feather like sand paper both won over 12 first each. as i stated to mike v. and others its in the diet for the feather.me two cents worth.

By Davebooth on Saturday, February 23, 2002 - 09:17 am: Edit

HI All , just a quick note .I know for a fact that one fellow in our combine baths the birds on shipping day every week and all I know is he won Short ,Middle ,and long Averages this past year and is always right near the top on most races.This man works all night and then spends around 5-7 hours with the birds before going to bed .He is one of the finest gentlemen you would ever want to meet and always willing to help out whenever he can.Some of you will know who I am talking about and for those that dont his name is Ray Crawford one of the finest people it has been my pleasure to know.

By Bshuba on Saturday, February 23, 2002 - 12:18 pm: Edit

Dave R
I'll take notice next time to this bloom,but thinking about it I think your right on the money about it on these barnys.When we leave these buildings we aren't covered in bloom,SHIT yes but not bloom..haha..We don't have much time to look at these barnys when we are in these buildings,just a quick look for lost racers.But theres always a barny or two that gets our attention that gets felt up and looked at because of color or that 1/2 racer look to it.One day theres going to be a couple of fellows sitting in a police car smelling like pigeon poop trying to explain what we are doing,I would be in trouble as I'am sure the wife won't bail me out.hahaha..Have a great day buddy..GO CANADA GO.!

By Mreyesign on Saturday, February 23, 2002 - 03:30 pm: Edit

David made a very good point and mixing it with the other Daves. I remember my old mentor saying that you feed for feather and if you examin what he meant ,he is also answering the reason why Commies don't have anywhere mear the bloom that our birds do. They don't get the diet for it. I too used to get into old buildings to catch the bids and noticed the lack of bloom on them but such was not the case when I got birds off the wheat silo's. Still laughing at the two old guy's in back of a police car trying to convince the cop's that they were only looking at the pigeons. I wouldn't believe you if I was a cop. HA HA HA HA HA AH AHA.10 years for breaking and entry.HA HA HA HA HA HA. Excellent story to tell when you get cought..

By Billytaylor on Saturday, February 23, 2002 - 07:59 pm: Edit

Once nearly got arrested for molesting pigeons, trying to catch wild ones under a bridge. Go figure. Lets race. Bye Billy