what brings this question?i flew 2season of young bird racing in manila phillipines ( no old bird race back then 91 92 dont know now)phillipines is s.e. asia.the way they fly north races series first and then south series races. the easy race is north the hard race is south. the hard race for the north is the last race . the pigeons get release on batanes island ,i cant remember how far they have to fly before they see land and then 300+miles of land. in the south it is island hoping. water land water mountain water.race at your own risk, once the bird get to the release point at break of light up they fly.typhoon rain or 95 deg weather.last race on the south the pigeons get release on a low point of the mountain.myth saying ,if a pigeon don't fly on top of the mountain bye, bye but how would you know if you dont try. now here is the eye sign ??? more experience fancier send their pearl eye on the south(and will advice you the same), the red yellowish ,orange dark eyed was sent to the north.at the end of the race sure enough the winner on the south is a pearl eyed splash bird. me i sent everything my best race there i got overall 16 place combine south,700+bird 20% return on the day bird, my 16th place, pearl eye, but the team i send was majority of the other color (limited by the # of my team).what is the logic in this. the fanciers are taiwaneese chineese and filipinos i'll say 50/ 50 experience wise. until know i keep asking my self what is the logic in the eye sign????????always rick

By Thewalrus1 on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 11:31 am: Edit

oops there was a 12 bird limit on that southrace

By Mikev on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 01:24 pm: Edit

Walrus. I know of no reason why a pearl or yellow based eye would fly any better or any worse on a given course. I think the answer to your racing is to get Everet to release your birds. That way you would get a minimum of 50% from both courses every time, guarrenteed!

By Marvin on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 02:05 pm: Edit

Thewalrus1, I have heard that birds with lighter colored eyes do better on fast days and darker eyes for harder races. Now, I am not sure if they were talking about the color of the Iris or the color of the C/C.

By Marvin on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 02:08 pm: Edit

Now, MikeV, don't be picking on Everet. hehe Actually maybe I'll trade with Everet and let him release ours. But the problem is that the worst race we had this YB season was on a beautiful day. Go figure.

By Billytaylor on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 02:49 pm: Edit

Wal what you have learned by flying in a foreign country is the diverse nature of this sport. My advise is to learn what works in your local area. The champs there are no dummies. Learn all they can teach you, then think it out and use your brain on how to do a better job and put the hurts on them. Lifetime occupation. Win some, lose some. You are not racing in the PI ,in Belg, Holland, Uk. You only have to beat the local flyers. Lets race. Bye BillyT

By Thewalrus1 on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 04:04 pm: Edit

sir, rick is the name, the walrus is my loft name. billy t ,that is what i thought, learn & apply.my club/combine fly like they hold the magic bullet ,i can count on my right hand the few that will help , just like everybody i only have five fingers . a few week ago , i believe i put the hurt in them .one bird derby 240miles 33 loft .i got 2nd got beat by 1.56min. third bird was 19min. behind me.i did good on the A race too 11th on the combine and 4th club. the same person that help advice me are still the one that congratulate me even though i did not win the race. going back breeding season i put a few bird on the club combine auction.one group ask in what bridge did i get my pigeon?now they ask again where did i get this pigeon that came 2nd .answer not on the bridge but the k mart parking lotgot that fr. you THE POINT IF I ONLY FOUND THIS DISCUSSION CENTER BEFORE THE BREEDING SEASON THIS K MART STRAIN WOULD HAVE HURT THEM MORE.I HAVE LEARN A LOT HERE AND I APPLIED WHAT I LEARN .THANK EVERYONE. where are the DR.? always rick

By Billytaylor on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 07:31 pm: Edit

Rick, no need to call me sir, I wouldnt return the favor. Get in the dirt and stir. Like your attitude. You got as good suggestions as us old AHs. Dont back down you dweeb. Forget the happy faces. Lets race. Bye BillyT

By Myron on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 09:33 pm: Edit

RICK,

THE DARK EYED BIRDS WITH A LOT OF BLACK ARE THE ONES THAT WILL DO BETTER IN REAL BAD WEATHER. THE VAN DER PLUCKERS. THIS IS USED BY MANY. THE LIGHTER PEARLS & YELLOWS ARE FAST, & CLEAR DAYS.
NEVER OVER LOOK THAT THESE BIRDS MUST HAVE A GOOD FAST FLEX IN SUNLITE.

By Thewalrus1 on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 09:35 am: Edit

Billy t, no more happy faces,see how i take advice seriuosly.Marvin & Myron,you just clear the doubt. thank you, honestly i don't pay attention on the eye sign too much.as long as it is clear not waterry ,for me it is good to go.what i don't like is diff. colored eye, what i mean is not the slight diff. the other eye look diff. than the other but will still fly the hell out of it see what it does. i'll keep your advice and start a note and someday maybe the eye sign will come to me. always, rick

By Mealy on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 10:50 am: Edit

Dont really know much about eyesign really but have a question. How would you grade a pigeon that has a large white colour surrounding the pupil and runs into the iris, The iris is very wishy washy with the white running into it a lot.

Iris colour being a pale red.

By Thewalrus1 on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 02:52 pm: Edit

Mealy, does this pigeon exist? is it a 02 yb?if so race the hell out of it.then you grade. if a breeder, breed it with a yellow or orange or the counter part.then raise 2 rounds for the coming yb season. then grade the young and the breeder....conclussion if it is not good either way cull .don't thank me .don't curse me, if you read postings in here old & new this is what it will boil down to.in the end your choice. always rick

By Marvin on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 03:10 pm: Edit

Mealy, I have seen some Janssen eyes that might fit that discription. Can you find an eye that looks something like it on one of the eyesign sites. Then maybe we could give a better answer if we know more what it looks like.

By Mealy on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 03:57 am: Edit

Thanks Marvin I will look up some sites,

By Mealy on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 10:43 am: Edit

marvin.

Here is one similar to what I was trying to explain.http://members.ozemail.com.au/~nicky1/page210.htm The one on the right hand of page.

By Marvin on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 11:21 am: Edit

Mealy, there is a chance that you are looking at a violet eyesign. Maybe when Mreyesign gets back from surgery he can give you a better answer.

By Mreyesign on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 07:49 pm: Edit

Mealy. Excuse me butting in but it sounded like marvin wanted me to help you. Yes the eye you are looking at on the (left hand side) of the two could well be a Dominant Violet. The colour is correct and the bright white pigment is retained on the outside of the circle of serration as it should be appearing like a separate entity within the eye. It is as close as you will get in a photograph without actually seeing the bird in the flesh.

To the resident idiot of this site. Moron. Who in the hell ever told you that dark eyed birds fly better in hard weather than light coloured eyed ones??? This I gotta hear. Show us some proof of that stupid and rediculous claim. Just for one time only in your meaningless existance, tell us the answer. From where did you get this bullshit. On what are basing this stupid statement or claim.

Your time for shock treatment is long over due.

By Myron on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 08:20 pm: Edit

YOU MUST HAVE OVER LOOKED OR SKIPPED "EYESIGN SCHOOL" THAT DAY WIND BAG SUCKER OF FILTERED AIR.

IT GOES BACK TO THE SAYING OF HORSES FOR COURSES.

CHECK IT OUT, REAL CLOSE & LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU FIND.??

By Mreyesign on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 08:23 pm: Edit

To all those interested. Once again we see that our resident IDIOT and PHONEY eye-sign man has failed to present any evidence to support his latest claim re the subject. Then again, I didn't really expect him too, did you?

By Mreyesign on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 08:28 pm: Edit

You made the statement so show us where your information comes from, that's all I ask. In the interest of something you don't seem to have any regard for or use for. It's called HONESTY. Now put up or shut up. Back up what you say with proof or, get the fuck off the site.

By Myron on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 08:39 pm: Edit

YOU WANT PROOF, THAN YOU PROOF THAT IT DOESN'T.

I'VE TAKEN ALL THE BULLSHIT FROM YOU THAT I'M GOING TO TAKE YOU LIEING BASTARD.

BECAUSE YOU HAVE A GOOD LINE OF BULLSHIT, DOESN'T MAKE YOU A WINNER. JUST BETTER WITH TWISTING WORDS.

By Mreyesign on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 08:51 pm: Edit

Just answer the question and cut to the proof. we are waiting but not holding our breath.

Where did you discover that only dark eye'd birds win in bad weather. Where were these trials held and howmany trials were there over what period of time and with howmany birds. Who held them and who witnessed it. Now that shouldn't be too hard surely should it? Good Luck IDIOT.

A WARNING TO ALL WHO WILL READ THIS ANSWER. BE SURE TO WEAR YOUR RUBBER BOOTS AS THE BULLSHIT IS LIKELY TO GET DEEP AROUND HERE AS SOON AS HE ANSWERS..

Ps. I have no need to disprove it. The readers will do just that for themselves by looking at their birds which won in bad weather. Or don't you think they have the brains to do this? AND SHOULD JUST ACCEPT YOUR WORD FOR WHAT EVER YOU SAY. PLEASE,I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU, YOU REALLY ARE A JOKE MORON.

By Myron on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 09:08 pm: Edit

READ THE WORDS OF YOUR MENTOR.

IT'S LATE DOWN HERE. GOODNITE ASSHOLE

I LEARNED YOUR OFFENSE TRICK FROM YOU, REMEMBER.???

By Mreyesign on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 10:31 pm: Edit

If that was true you would sound intelligent some of the time. Sorry defect you never make sence. Still waiting for your answers or is it too hard for you to bullshit your way out of. TUT TUT TUT. What a pathetic case you really are.

By Lost on Friday, November 01, 2002 - 11:49 pm: Edit

Hi Bob......shubie here .......Sorry I couldn't make it to the convention....Shit happens....From what I hear you did very well..Congrats...hope all learn't something more than they had known about eyesign......The true DOM - violet,EYE really does look washed out.....interesting...I'll keep this in mind.Wasn't something I liked to see before...Ah learning something every day..Thank you and glad your feeling better.

By Lost on Saturday, November 02, 2002 - 10:24 am: Edit

Myron.....Thanks for the eye pic,looks like the few birds here that I call my white eyed birds,very little red....a couple do have clusters also..I must have done something right..lol

Tom...sorry for not making it to Edmonton buddy,missed a great time I'am sure,say Hi to Frank And the guys for me would ya.Thank You..Just so dam busy working trying to keep what little I have....Speaking of work,gotta go..I'am beat.

By Mreyesign on Saturday, November 02, 2002 - 01:34 pm: Edit

To Schoobie Doo. Just to be sure that there is no misunderstanding Bill. The ULTRA BRIGHT white pigment I talked about, can only be found in the true Violet eye, together with any of the other colours.

Some of the OYSTER EYEs do tend at first glance to appear washed out, so be careful when assessing them and only do it with a glass.

When this white pigment flows over the boundary of containment which is the circle of serration, onto the circle of correlation or eye-sign, it is then recessive of the Violet but the bird still carries the genes.

The dominant of these eye's is the one in which the eye-sign circle is a totally different (darker) colour of white than that seen around outer edge of the circle of serration. Hope this helps a bit more old buddy and good luck in the future..

P S. You can see some very good examples of somthing like what I'm trying to discribe in breeds such as tumblers and tipplers. No your birds with white eyes wont tumble or tipple.

By Jimmyoz on Saturday, November 02, 2002 - 05:37 pm: Edit

Bob,

Question: Does the ultra white pigment that our birds sometimes have and that is frequently found in fancy breeds indicate the common origin of the birds? I would think so. Just as the frills and feathered feet on some of my birds (particularly the inbred Delbars) is a recessive gene carried down from the Smerle (Levi: Section 560).

Jimmyoz

By Mreyesign on Saturday, November 02, 2002 - 07:30 pm: Edit

You slam dunked that one home Jimmy. Excellent conclusion and you are also right about the Delbars and those feathered feet which, according to my records, they get from the Gitts which were used in the make-up of the original foundation birds of the Maurice Delbar family.

The thing that many people do no realize is that, fancy breeds are a lot more "pure" and specialised genetically than are racing pigeons and, the average racing man could do himself a BIG BIG favour by spending some time talking to these fancy breed people, if for nothing else, to learn something of the art of breeding better pigeons,these guys have the know how.

That's why all fancy birds of the same breed, look like peas in a pod and are exactly the same and true in appearance to that breed and it's standards.

Breeders of fancy birds deserve the utmost respect for their ability to produce the excellent uniformity we see in their birds, but have you ever noticed that all racing pigeons are different? No two are exactly the same??

The average racing man cannot breed birds half as well as these guy's do and, you can bet the farm on that one.

There are many different reasons why but, basically and in a nut shell, it's because racing men use the wrong birds to breed from?

Do the fancy bird breeders use eye-sign to assist them?????? Not in axactly the same way that we do but, many that I have met do consider the eyes to be very important??????????????

By Myron on Saturday, November 02, 2002 - 08:46 pm: Edit

Introduction TO ""PEAS IN A POD""

Using the Loupe

For the Novice

Eyesign Terms


3/D Eye

Recognizing Condition

Clusters

Super Eyes


Starting Your Own Family


FIRST YOU CAN START BY PAIRING THE BEST YOUNG HEN WHO MOST RESEMBLES HER SIRE TO HIM.
THE SAME FOR DAM AND BEST SON WHO LOOKS MOST LIKE HIS MOTHER.
THE 2 BEST CHILDREN OF THESE PAIRINGS ARE THEN PUT TOGETHER AND THEIR YOUNG ARE PAIRED BACK TO THE ORIGINAL GOLDEN PARENTS. DOING THIS WILL GIVE YOU PEAS THAT LOOK THE SAME AND PERFORM THE SAME.

FIND ANOTHER PAIR LIKE THE ORIGINAL ONE YOU HAVE AND DO THE SAME THING WITH THEM.

TAKE THE YOUNG FROM BOTH BEST PAIR AND MATE THEM TOGETHER FOR THE NEXT 20 YEARS AND COUNT YOUR TROPHIES WHILE ROCKING IN YOUR EASY CHAIR.

SECOND WAY TO GO IS FIND ONE MORE ACE BREEDER, PREFERABLY A HEN AND TAKE YOUNG WHICH ARE 1/2 BROTHERS AND SISTERS AND PAIR THEM TOGETHER TO PRODUCE FLYERS AND ALWAYS LOOKING TO FIND THE ELUSIVE GOLDEN BREEDER.

ALWAYS KEEP IN MIND THAT IF YOU WANT TO FLY COCKS FOR WIDOWHOOD OR JUST BECAUSE YOU LIKE COCKS BECAUSE OF PERSONAL PREFERENCE THEY ALWAYS GET THEIR GOOD QUALITIES FROM THEIR MOTHER. THE SAME GOES FOR THE HEN, THEY INHERIT THEIR GOOD QUALITIES FROM THEIR SIRE.

THAT IS WHY IF YOU HAVE THE DAUGHTER OF A CHAMPION, SHE WILL PRODUCE BETTER MALE FLYERS & VICE VERSA. ALSO THIS IS WHY THERE ARE MANY FATHER/DAUGHTER MATINGS. IF YOU STUDY OR LOOK INTO GENETICS YOU'LL FIND THAT NOT EVEN BROTHER AND SISTER PAIRINGS ARE AS CLOSE AS SOME PEOPLE THINK.

NO MATTER HOW YOU WANT TO START YOUR FAMILY, YOU MUST ALWAYS REMEMBER TO USE BIRDS THAT ARE IDENTICAL IN TYPE TO GET BIRDS THAT WILL ALL LOOK LIKE "PEAS IN A POD".

MYRON KULIK (EYESIGN 101) Back Next

By Mreyesign on Saturday, November 02, 2002 - 09:49 pm: Edit

TO ALL READERS .PLEASE NOTE.

WITH REGARDS TO THE ABOVE POST AND IT'S AUTHOR. MORON KULIC. HE HAS NEVER DONE ANY OF THE ABOVE AND IS GIVING FREELY OF HIS UNQUALIFIED CONCLUSIONS, SPECULATIONS AND ASSUMPTIONS OF HIS OWN UNDERSTANDING OF A SUBJECT WHICH REQUIRES AT VERY LEAST FIVE YEARS OF "HANDS ON" EXPERIENCE OF WHICH HE HAS NONE AND, BECAUSE OF THS FACT, HE CAN OFFER NO PROOF OR EVIDENCE OF ANY OF HIS OUTLANDISHLY STUPID CLAIMS OR ADVISE.

HE WILL NEVER ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS ONLINE RE SAME BUT, PREFERES TO DO THIS UNDER THE COVER OF E-MAILS WHICH HE BELIEVES WILL NOT BE SEEN BY THOSE WHO KNOW BETTER ABOUT HIS FRAUDULENT PRETENCE.

IF YOU ARE UNFORTUNATE ENOUGH TO RECEIVE AN E-MAIL FROM THIS PHONEY, BE SURE NOT TO OPEN IT AS HE HAS ALSO BEEN KNOWN TO OPENLY CLAIM THE CREDIT FOR ANY SUCCESS THAT YOU MAY HAVE IN THIS SPORT SIMPLY BECAUSE HE E-MAILED YOU.

HE IS NOT A PIGEON FLYER AND NEVER WAS OR WILL BE. IN SHORT, THIS IMPOSTER HAS NO RIGHT TO BE POSTING ON THE THIS SITE WHICH WAS INTENDED FOR REAL PIGEON FLYERS PAST OR PRESENT, OF WHICH HE IS NEITHER AND NEVER HAS BEEN OR EVER WILL BE.

MY FINAL WORD OF WARNING IS. INSIST ON PROOF OF THE CLAIMS BEING MADE AND IF THERE IS NO PROOF FORTHCOMING, MOVE ON. YOU'VE BEEN WARNED.

IN TOTAL HONESTY I REMAIN.

R FLEMING. MREYESIGN@AOL.COM TEL 818 833 7399.

By Mreyesign on Saturday, November 02, 2002 - 09:57 pm: Edit

A QUESTION FROM A NOVICE. PLEASE SIR MR MORON. WHEN DID YOU EVER BREED A FAMILY IN THE SAME WAY THAT YOU ARE TELLING US? AND WHAT DID YOU WIN WITH THEM AND WHERE WAS THIS DONE.WHAT CLUB WERE YOU IN AT THE TIME. JUST DOING WHAT MR FLEMING SAID WE SHOULD DO. THANK YOU MR MORON SIR.

PS
IF YOU CAN'T ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS PLEASE GET OFF THE SITE YOU IDIOT, YOU ARE MAKING AN EVEN BIGGER FOOL OF YOURSELF.

By Mikev on Saturday, November 02, 2002 - 10:00 pm: Edit

Hi Myron. I can't agree with your statement that the hen passes her good qualities only to her sons and vice versa with the cocks only to his daughters. That is one of those myths. Are you saying that the 019, the young Merckx and the Velo were no good or that there father, the old Merckx had little to do with their success? I personally have bred many great sons from my best breeding cock and many great daughters from my best breeding hens. The science of genetics tells us that every youngster inherets 50% of its genetic material from each parent. Beware of the old wives tale.

By Mreyesign on Saturday, November 02, 2002 - 10:06 pm: Edit

ARE YOU GETTING THE MESSAGE YET DICK HEAD. I SEE YOU ARE DELVING INTO GENETICS TOO, SO PERHAPS YOU COULD ANSWER THE QUESTION YOU ALMOST ASKED.

ARE BROTHER AND SISTER MATINGS, INBREEDING OR LINE BREEDING? also where did you hear that the hens off Champion cocks fly better than the cocks off same? Please advise us all.WE ARE DYING TO HEAR THIS NEW LINE OF YOUR BULLSHIT.

By Mreyesign on Saturday, November 02, 2002 - 10:45 pm: Edit

BUZZ BUZZ TIMES UP. YOU FAILED AGAIN MORON.

THE GENETISISTS AND SCIENTISTS THEM SELVES CANNOT DECIDE WHETHER OR NO A BROTHER SISTER MATING IS INBREEDING OR LINE BREEDING. TO SOME IT IS ONE THING AND TO OTHERS IT IS ANOTHER. THE BATTLE OVER THIS HAS RAGED FOR OVER A HUNDRED YEARS.

SO YOU SEE MORON YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THIS SUBJECT EITHER.

WHY DON'T YOU TRY THE ART OF LOFT SCRAPPING AND PAINTING THEN PEOPLE MIGHT GIVE YOU A CHANCE TO PROVE YOURSELF AT SOMETHING AT LEAST USEFUL.

I SHOULD ALSO THROW IN THE OLD SAYING WHICH GOES LIKE THIS. THOSE WHO CAN'T, TEACH.

By Myron on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 09:44 am: Edit

TO ALL SKEPTICS,


I WILL PICK YOUR BEST BIRDS & PAIR THEM FOR BEST RESULTS THE FOLLOWING YEAR WITH YOUR Y/B'S ANY TIME YOU WANT. YOU NAME IT. NO CHARGE, JUST AIR FARE.

LOVE TO ALL EXCEPT ONE
MYRON S KULIK OR EYESIGN 101@ AOL.COM

By Lost on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 10:38 am: Edit

Good morning all......I also have to agree with Mike.v...on both parents having alot to do with thier ybs..Myron I once thought as you and many still do that the daugters from thier sires got ONLY the sires genes and visa versa..used to really make me think though when I would breed young cocks that were excactly in looks,shape,color, ect as thier sires and had nothing like thier dams.Its very easy to raise peas in a pod......once youv'e done inbreeding,But to have them race,fly..the way the champion does or did is another thing,this I myself learn't first hand...even with a SUPER OUT CROSS......Pigeon racing just ain't that cut and dry..lol..Bob I agree with you that the fancey show guys know alot about the inbreeding of thier show birds...I am amazed at how well they know how to breed for special colors...really something alright..But for us RACING guys to breed peas in a pod and NOT race them but only Show them isn't that hard compared to what we expect from our racers......Well you can tell I've been away a long time..lol..Talk..talk.talk...bye..

By Lost on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 10:44 am: Edit

Should also mention That I've bred young hens that are peas in a pod to thier DAMS and not their sires.....just another point...I'am not picking sides with anyone just my opinion on the matter.....I like everyone...lol

By Mreyesign on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 11:30 am: Edit

To the Moron. Please tell us the names of people who you have successfully performed this service for in the past, that we may varify your claim before employing or recommending your services. Surely this is only fair and busness like isn't it??????

Let me simplify that question. For whom have you ever bred a winner that can be varified.

By Mreyesign on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 12:45 pm: Edit

BUZZ BUZZ TIMES UP YOU LOOSE AGAIN MORON. The truth is that there is no one whom you have ever bred a winner for.NO ONE.

You have never done ANY of the things that you so freely ADVISE people to do, so what on gods earth could possibly make you believe that ANYONE would pay for you to carry out WHAT AMOUNT TO NOTHING MORE THAN EXPERIMENTS using their birds as your subjects?? The mind boggles.. People are not that stupid. They don't want experiments which are nothing more than guesses and which any one can do for themselves so why waste money to let you do it for them???? You make no sence at all..

Are you really that stupid or is this an act of some sort.

At least your price is right. You will do what you want to do for free, AND IN TRUTH, THAT'S ALL IT'S WORTH except for the fact that it will also cost your customer (sucker) the cost and waste of a year or so from his breeders. Wake up Moron. P T Barnham was wrong. There isn't one born every minute, and the fact is that, you have NOTHING to offer the pigeon flyer except your off the wall pipe dreams.

How many times do you have to hit yourself on that thick skull of yours before you start to realize that you are NOT RECOGNIZED as an eye-sign man or, a grader or, a pigeon genetics man or even a pigeon flyer or anthing else within the world of racing pigeons and never was or will be.

Having a web site CLAIMING TO HAVE WON THE GOLDEN LOFT AWARD (WHAT EVER THE HELL THAT IS OR IS IT JUST ANOTHER ONE OF YOUR DREAMS MORON) doesn't make you an expert. You have to know what you are talking about, and YOU CLEARLY DON'T.

This is the MAIN reason you refuse to answer questions on line, because your answers would OBVIOUSLY expose you as the phoney that you are.

By Mreyesign on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 01:43 pm: Edit

To Lost. There are certain breeds of what the owners call racing birds or show homers, which are bred for their looks and feathering patterns etc. One of which is the Gurnay.

A regular who posts on here, flew one recently and it took three weeks to fly 300 miles????

According to the show boys this is quite acceptable to them but realistically, what they have done is to forfeit the athletic ability which once existed in the original birds in return for the features that they need and desire to be successfull in the show pen.

What most people do not understand (me included) about genetics is that, genes only come in pairs. This means that racing performance is also linked to another factor and, the ART of breeding is to discover what that other factor is?

Eye-sign will not tell you this regardless of what you may have heard however, it will tell if the bird has inherited the athletic gene but sorry, not what the link is too.

eg In racing birds, performance is often linked to colour. In other words, the reds of a certain ESTABLISHED family will be the athletes, while the blues are the breeders of these athletes.

The performance link may also be to a particular sex or a marking like a tri bar and in some instances even the eye??

I wish I could absorb the whole genetics subject as easily as others do, but the truth is I can't. Believe me I've tried everything but can only go so far then I get lost. It's a very interesting and complex science in it's self, and is nothing like mixing paint which is how many pigeon flyers try to imagine the art of breeding winners. Equal parts black and white should in theory make grey??? so why don't they? That's where genetics comes in, and what it's is all about. and the beat goes on.

By Lost on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 02:32 pm: Edit

very true bob,very true......pigeon racing boy what a sport it is......Even the experts in Genetics that race pigeons can't get it right...I'am just a dummy,and racing GOOD is tough enough for me....Thank goodness I'am still young and theres enough time yet for me to be like the Billy T's and Oscars....in this sport...JUST to name A FEW of the great flyers here...

By Jimmyoz on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 02:53 pm: Edit

Bob,
Yes the Delbars went back to the Gitts. I am sure that the Racing Pigeon also had cropper in it at some stage. I shall check my references. Levi deals with recidevism to the wild pigeon.

Jimmyoz

By Mreyesign on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 03:31 pm: Edit

G'DAY Jimmy, Did you know there are over 400 varieties of wild pigeons throughout the world? so it stands to reason that the common rock dove played a roll in the makeup of racing birds which is shown by the covert feather bands (blue bars on the wings) even though Giggot claims to have only used four breeds. Probably because one or more of those four existing breeds were originally created with the use of rock doves long before Giggot was even born. Hoo roo f now. Going down to watch the snow bird team come in from the first testing race??????? And that's how the beat goes on.

We have wild birds here called, BAN TAIL PIGEONS (GOOD EATING) and like ALL pure breeds, they have Fabulous Eye-Signs? They are a kind of large dove, and they cross easily with pigeons but, the young ones produced can't fly worth a damn.

By Mreyesign on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 04:04 pm: Edit

To Lost. Billy T ??????? WHAT. HE COULDN'T FLY A PAPER KITE IN A GENTLE BREEZE. I'm ducking Billy.

By Billytaylor on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 08:25 pm: Edit

Bobo may be right after all, my genetic pros here still missing on a 300 mile race in 5 inches of rain as of dark on Sunday. Makes you think, does the eyeball experts know how to race or does the performance and severe culler do? Lets race. Bye BillyT

By Roly on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 09:15 pm: Edit

Bet the Eye birds faternity are struggling a lot more Billy boy... and that when one applies a little logic to it is a fact.

By Jimmyoz on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 05:13 am: Edit

Bob,
DNA could tell some interesting stories.
Jimmyoz

By Roly on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 05:24 am: Edit

DNA..!! ?
Well just to show one of all the intracity of DNA... If on unscambled the make -Cells for a beter word for every one to relat - and laid them side by side the would stretch to the Sun and Back 100 times. yes! 100 times.. unscabble that lol.

By Mealy on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 11:05 am: Edit

The only thing DNA could do would be to uncover all the cowboys in this game. Create a profile instead of a paper pedigree and that would validate what is written on the paper. I hear you say COST!!!! what is £2 compared to being ripped off. If you are to pay £1000 for a son off Johns joy you want to know for sure it is off John's joy.

By Mreyesign on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 12:43 pm: Edit

I couldn't agree more Mealy, the sooner it arrives the better. It will definately tell you the truth about which birds are the parents. Roly also has a good point also in that, nothing will sort out the genetic links etc but, that's not really what DNA testing is supposed to do anyway, at least not yet?

To Billy T. Sorry to read about that bad race you had Pal I guess my joke was badly timed. Hope they get through for you. Maybe you should breed some with dark bull eye's????Some idiot suggested that they fly better in bad weather. HO HO HO HA HA HA HE HE HE. ~~!!@@#$%^&*()_+ ;) DUMB DUMB DUMB DE DUMB DUMB.

By Roland_Z on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 05:31 pm: Edit

Mr Eyesign,
"eg In racing birds, performance is often linked to colour. In other words, the reds of a certain ESTABLISHED family will be the athletes, while the blues are the breeders of these athletes."
This is probably accidental on your part but is certainly a real clangor!
Blues could never be the breeders of red athletes.... maybe recessive reds??? Just because blues don't breed reds...
You should blush a little....:>}

By Lost on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 06:54 pm: Edit

Roland...your as sharp as a razor..besides a great pigeon man to boot.I sure missed seeing you and Tom and all the guys this year at the show...I really hope next year to make it up.

By Mreyesign on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 08:39 pm: Edit

Well Roland, if you want to be that testicle. What if the red hens are mated to blue chequer cocks and visa versa. Now don't tell me you won't get reds amongst them??? That's what I had in mind. Blues can most definately be the breeders of red athletes. but what do you call a blue ? a chequer or barred. I think were splitting hairs, or should that be feathers?

I once crossed a bull terrier with a chitzoo and got six puppies. We called them "bullchitz" Sold every one.

By Roly on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 09:30 pm: Edit

A red and blue breed reds. or blues.
I have red cocks chucking red young of both sexes. Or are we saying to blues can't chuck a red? I think that any thing. regardless how remote Anything can Throw back to a previous colour.. if very rare. Enlighten me.
I have seen topics of this nature discussed before, but never listened as wasn't at all interested. but I quite like the views we are about to get.

By Terryh on Monday, November 04, 2002 - 10:31 pm: Edit

Roly.
Blue cock and red hen, the Reds will be cocks and the blues will be hens. Red cocks and blue hens and you will get either sex,either colour. Recessive red require two birds carrying recessive red genes to produce a recessive red.
Best Terry

By Jimmyoz on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 04:24 am: Edit

Bob,
DNA could tell us what breeds were used. It's a brave man who says he is 100% sure who his father was. A bloke I know found out that 2 of his four kids were his brothers.

Roly/ Mealy,
Going to the Gabba t watch the cricket on Thursday. Your mob better put up a good show.
Jimmyoz.

By Roly on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 05:24 am: Edit

YES MUCKER we will... word has it here that we have been paid off big time ... so you should get a result!
Usually story ..
we get the cash,
You get ..
The glory! lol

By Roly on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 05:31 am: Edit

Still we must be kind to our second - rate rejects.. trouble is they have our genes and that means they excel in most things. Just like us lol.

By Mealy on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 06:21 am: Edit

Jimmy Oz

We have only sent the reserves out this time, we thought we should give you a good game this year. Most of our stars????? have stayed at home for the firework displays.
whereabouts in oz are you? I have a friend in Cairns and another friend over visiting him, at the moment.

Hoping to visit the good land in maybe two years time when our youngest is old enough to behave on such a long flight.

By Roly on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 10:42 am: Edit

Oh just thought Oz, I Have a mate over there somewhere... named Derek Stanford. When you bump into him, ask him to give us a bell like.
Ps, now his father - in - law Ray was a great pigeon man! Derek... well was doing ok for a while.. but decided there was more fun binking the birds... namely Ray's daughter like! lol

By Roland_Z on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 11:15 am: Edit

Eyesign... I guess I just wanted to feel important and wise for a minute:>} how do you make that sign again???
every now and again we still see pedigrees form someone that has reds coming from blues and chequers from blue bars. some of them swear it's true.... sperm stays alive for up to about 14 days and that's where the exceptions come from in my view, even in individual breeding cages

By Marvin on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 11:31 am: Edit

Roland_Z, you do the : and the ). If you had not mentioned about reds coming from blues I would have. Some say if you inbreed long enough you can get reds out of blues....but it does not make sense to me.

By Billytaylor on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 03:03 pm: Edit

I may have mentioned it before about getting a red out of two BBs second round in individual pens. Witness is my old pard Harry McGhee. We thought this impossible and inspected both breeders closely. Sure enough on the 10th flight of the hen was a barely discernable tinge of brown at the very tip. She was carrying red in the genes. Lets race. Bye BillyT

By Roly on Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 08:44 pm: Edit

Hey when in Sidney Oz. pop around that way and ask for a 'Clair Baker'. She works there now, she's me daughter like, and just settling in like.. so every one is bound to know her or at least hear tale about a new person moving in like.

By Jimmyoz on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 03:01 am: Edit

Mealy / Roly,
I am in Brisbane the greatest city in the world. I am travelling to Cairns on 26,27 & 28 November. It's heaven up there although very humid this time of the year.

I will be at the cricket tomorrow watching your mob cook in the sun.

Roly, Why would your daughter want to live in Sydney... full of gays & loud mouths.

If anyone wants to look at some interesting stuff on genetics read my old mate Levi.

By Roly on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 07:27 am: Edit

GGEEEEH Post the Addie laddie.
Siddy is queer.. werr Ent all wierd over there where the sheep go PAA - Paa

By Jimmyoz on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 04:29 pm: Edit

Good People,

The ultimate genetic test is the crate. Yesterday does not count for anything if todays birds are not fast enough. Stick them in the crate and cast them to the four winds.

It's a bit like us mob in Oz. They stuck the ancestors in boats and sent them from Britain and Europe and released them in this great paradise. We have prospered against the odds. Few ever look back.

Jimmyoz

By Roly on Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 08:06 pm: Edit

Ay ewes look back ... you keep your eyes ahed lol.

By Jimmyoz on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 03:18 am: Edit

Roly / Mealy
2/300 +. Like our pigeons - stern genetic stuff. Go Matt.

By Roly on Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 03:15 pm: Edit

GEEAR and we had here at Northants too teach him how to bat like... Just shows how generous we in not sending over a 'First Side' lol

By Mealy on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 04:01 am: Edit

Jim.

Not so confident today I assume..... Must admit did not follow the sport until the rivalry started. Lets kick some Aussie arse.

By Jimmyoz on Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 03:46 am: Edit

Mealy, Roly,
Your boys are finding out about the Gabba Graveyard. Barmy days in Brissy.

Back to pigeons.
Re the comments above about reds. I have a blue pied Delbar hen mated to a blue cock. Now Bob would like the eyes in these two. Anyway I have had the blue cocks family for 6 generations and have the pedigree of the Delbar going back to old Maurie's birds. They through a recessive red pied cock. He is the same pied pattern as the dam but a recessive pied with strong bull eyes. Figure that one out.

Jimmyoz

By Mreyesign on Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 10:37 pm: Edit

Jimmy missed your post above earlier. The bull eye comes with the pied genes and cannot be easily gotten rid of, but then again why would you want to.

An old friend of mine culled all the pieds he bred each year for thirty or forty years, and just before he died, his grand daughter asked him to keep one of the pretty ones for her to play with? The pieds came in his Harrisons which was very unusual for them. Usually all black or very dark cheq's

He hated people to even see a pied in his loft but eventually he flew it. You guessed it. It won the club first time out and the VPU fed in Victoria for him several times when he flew in the Sunshine club with me and another buddy called Alan Hitchcock who still fly's today, and finally it won the very prestigeous 550 from WAGGA in NSW. Only day bird. Go figure????? His name was Bernie Bergroft, From South Rd Sunshine Victoria. That was about 500 years ago.

I recently found a picture of my old sunshine loft from way back then and I'm in it at ten years old. Have to send it to Sunset to post.

By Jimm on Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 11:00 am: Edit

Just a qick note an old friend of mine was a bit of an eyesign man..but would not have a red in his loft..such a waste of trying a possible good bird.
Lo and behold I flew any colour that would clock for me ..and when he wanted to try one of my birds I gave him a red youngster and he didn't give it any chance but it was there when he died a short time later and I brought it back home and it bred me one of my best birds over the years.
Just my thoughts about not getting hung up on only certain colours.

By Mreyesign on Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 11:26 am: Edit

That's interesting and almost the same story?

By Jimmyoz on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 01:14 am: Edit

Bob,

No way would I kill that recessive pied cock. He has that undeniable something. He is a genetic freak. He also showed the ability to put on the speed although he was a late bred. He may carry recessive genes but then again, winning is recessive. Ask Meuleman. Now that should spur some debate.

Jimmyoz

By Mreyesign on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 01:19 am: Edit

You won't get an argument from me Oz. you are correct.

By Jimmyoz (198.142.59.224 - 198.142.59.224) on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 03:03 pm: Edit

Bob,

Not so much recessive, rather uncommon amongst the best bred.

Roly / Mealy

Better luck next time. Convicts: 1 ; Motherland: 0.

Jimmyoz

By Roly (62.253.32.5 - 62.253.32.5) on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 03:20 pm: Edit

Next Time! What do you take us for ...... Mugs? That why we only sent 3rd Raters.. the women next.... No they were the women honest! ..Well don't really know about that though lol.
But we were up against the 3 best bowlers argueably in the world..or must be nigh, and the Bats were wieghted by a lad we taught up the road here, but all in all well done, nothing less than what was expected.

By Mealy (138.253.119.100 - 138.253.119.100) on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 03:58 am: Edit

Tasty this humble pie

By Bear (144.138.77.109 - 144.138.77.109) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 03:42 am: Edit

Do Not worry Meally, by the end of our summer and your winter you will get used to the taste of the old humble pie LOL.

By Roly (62.253.32.5 - 62.253.32.5) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 04:43 am: Edit

Well I see we spanked the Assuiss at Rugby again.. and the Zealanders / S/A have made their excuses too..... Heaven help them if we Got rid Off the 'OLE SCHOOL Tie' and put in good Cricket players and Rugby players etc. alike. All sports here gopverned via the Ole school pals act, still upper lip are naturally only a % of what a proper Fielded side would be able to do..... The majority of Schools here don't play either, let alone have the means to play. Ie I have had to Borrow from the Athletic club equippment for the School. and vica - versa. that's real truth!.
But having said that, Well done you Pommie Bashers lol.

By Mreyesign (198.81.26.141 - 198.81.26.141) on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 07:58 pm: Edit

When Manchester city can beat United, anything is possible. And what a great game.

By Mealy (138.253.119.102 - 138.253.119.102) on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 04:22 am: Edit

United gettig beat takes the taste away of humble pie, best news of the weekend

By Mreyesign (198.81.26.141 - 198.81.26.141) on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 12:16 am: Edit

Drop ded and rot. It was tragic. TRAGIC I SAY.